What Makes a Ship Model Valuable to Others?

[dockattner]

A recent posting featured a ship model built by a 20th century modeler. The subject was unique (scratch-built) and was seemingly well done (more on that in a moment). The original poster was (among other things) wondering how this model could be valued (perhaps for insurance purposes, or perhaps for a future sale - it doesn't really matter).

A member of our forum offered some very helpful advice, and in that post commended both the model and the builder of the model, indicating that this model was special and would be valued by collectors. I do not in any way doubt our member's well-informed opinion vis a vis the model collector market (that is, I take him at his word that this model was valuable).

But (and I am finally getting to the subject of this thread)...

As I mentioned above this model was well done. But I know of at least a dozen modelers on our forum who could have done a better job if the measure of a model is the skillfulness of its execution. In other words, it was a really good model, but not better that many of the models routinely shown on our forum.

What is it about a model that makes it valuable to the collector community?

A unique subject (that is, not built from an Ancre monograph - just to site one example)?
A well know builder (even if that builder isn't uniquely/supremely skilled compared to others)?
Age of the model (though this particular example wasn't old)?

I'll do my best to contain thread drift, but I suspect I will ultimately fail...

 

[Y.T.]

I believe an end buyer would not care if all model parts were produced from scratch based on expensive monographs or purchased in the kits. They would only care of model appearance.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

this has been covered over and over in other topics too bad we cannot collect all the posts, edit them and present the subject in one place.

A unique subject (that is, not built from an Ancre monograph - just to site one example)?

kits or built from plans are pretty much worthless as a collector piece of art their value is in home or office decor. A mass produced item rarely sells for much.

A well know builder (even if that builder isn't uniquely/supremely skilled compared to others)?

Hahn model sold in the range of $35,000 and up because they were built by a well-established artist who's work is in museums. So, in some cases the artist is a big factor plus the fact they are scratch built from drawing plans to a finished piece. One of a kind and highest quality.

Age of the model (though this particular example wasn't old)?

age does not matter like the example of a Hahn model, however an admiralty model would be very expensive

I'll do my best to contain thread drift, but I suspect I will ultimately fail...

any topic or thread that relies on opinion is bound to drift so might as well let it roll in my opinion

 

[dockattner]

I believe an end buyer would not care if all model parts were produced from scratch based on expensive monographs or purchased in the kits. They would only care of model appliance.

Thanks, YT. That's one vote for appearance informs value over-against other measures.

 

[dockattner]

this has been covered over and over in other topics too bad we cannot collect all the posts, edit them and present the subject in one place.

Thanks, Dave. I'm specifically interested in hearing views about value within the ship model collector market. For example, ship models sold at auction, or through ship model brokers...

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Thanks, Dave. I'm specifically interested in hearing views about value within the ship model collector market. For example, ship models sold at auction, or through ship model brokers...

first you need to understand the art community it is a closed system with their own rules, judgement and definitions of what is art. Nautical art has their established clientele with set values and criteria. If you are an outsider an unknown with no back round story or connections, you have to first establish yourself in the community.
For an example in art if you toss a bucket of paint at a canvas your fellow artists will judge you, what is he trying to express here, why did he do it? where is this going? what is the potential?
In nautical art "ship modes" the gallery knows the buyers, are they collectors of fine art or do they just want a model to put in their office or lobby? it come down to the dance between the artist and the client. There are no set rules.

 

[AllanKP69]

kits or built from plans are pretty much worthless as a collector piece

I am probably misreading this, but how can anyone build an accurate model without any plans? I am pretty sure even for a scratch build of a ship that has not been modeled to death it usually/always starts with a set of contemporary plans or plans based on contemporary sources.
Allan

 

[rtibbs]

Rtibbs philosophy 101

BEAUTY is in the eye of the beholder
VALUE is what one is willing to pay for it

I personally could care less about the opinions of the so called "experts"

 

[dockattner]

Thanks, Dave. I'm specifically interested in hearing views about value within the ship model collector market. For example, ship models sold at auction, or through ship model brokers...

first you need to understand the art community it is a closed system with their own rules, judgement and definitions of what is art. Nautical art has their established clientele with set values and criteria. If you are an outsider an unknown with no back round story or connections, you have to first establish yourself in the community.
For an example in art if you toss a bucket of paint at a canvas your fellow artists will judge you, what is he trying to express here, why did he do it? where is this going? what is the potential?
In nautical art "ship modes" the gallery knows the buyers, are they collectors of fine art or do they just want a model to put in their office or lobby? it come down to the dance between the artist and the client. There are no set rules.

Thanks, Dave. I had not considered the (now obvious) parallels with the art world.

 

[dockattner]

Rtibbs philosophy 101

BEAUTY is in the eye of the beholder
VALUE is what one is willing to pay for it

I personally could care less about the opinions of the so called "experts"

Thanks for posting, Ron. Much of that certainly applies to the world of art as Dave has posted about. And I guess in the world of commerce the price paid is what a willing seller is willing to accept from a willing buyer. My question was more about how someone determines that a particular model has value in the collector market? The subject that prompted this was good (but not great) from the perspective of skillful execution - yet people have determined this model has (considerable?) collector value.

How is it that there are countless models being built on this forum and no one suggests that they are 'worth' anything in the marketplace? Or maybe it's nothing more than that thought never occurs to people primarily interested in ship modeling as a hobby?

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

I am probably misreading this, but how can anyone build an accurate model without any plans? I am pretty sure even for a scratch build of a ship that has not been modeled to death it usually/always starts with a set of contemporary plans or plans based on contemporary sources.
Allan

what i meant by this is there are the original builder plans of a ship when you take this original plan and redraw it for modeling you have created an original set of "modeling plans" you are the draftsman who took the original and interpret the drawing to be used in modeling. Now if you take a set of modeling plans such as the plans drawn by Harold Hahn and build a model from them the model is "built from existing plans" and you are building what Hahn created.

 

[AllanKP69]

what i meant by this is there are the original builder plans of a ship when you take this original plan and redraw it for modeling you have created an original set of "modeling plans" you are the draftsman who took the original and interpret the drawing to be used in modeling. Now if you take a set of modeling plans such as the plans drawn by Harold Hahn and build a model from them the model is "built from existing plans" and you are building what Hahn created.

Thanks David, understood.

Another analogy......Value versus beauty...... A toy-like model built by a 7 year old George Washington or 7 year old King George II would probably sell for as much or more than a highly detailed model found in RMG or Musee de al Marine built at the same time. Hell, one of the pairs of Judy Garland's ruby slippers from the Wizard of Oz movie sold for $32 million in 2024. They were beautiful, but $32,000,000?????

Allan

 

[dockattner]

Thanks David, understood.

Another analogy......Value versus beauty...... A toy-like model built by a 7 year old George Washington or 7 year old King George II would probably sell for as much or more than a highly detailed model found in RMG or Musee de al Marine built at the same time. Hell, one of the pairs of Judy Garland's ruby slippers from the Wizard of Oz movie sold for $32 million in 2024. They were beautiful, but $32,000,000?????

Allan

That's helpful, Allan. I had not previously heard the name of the person who created the model myself - but that is more an affirmation of my ignorance than his lack of following or fame in a niche market.

 

[xanthar]

Hahn model sold in the range of $35.000 and up because they were built by a well-established artist who's work is in museums. So, in some cases the artist is a big factor plus the fact they are scratch built from drawing plans to a finished piece. One of a kind and highest quality.

$35 dollars sounds reasonable. I'll take 2 : P

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

As I mentioned above this model was well done.

The deck is a red flag. It places the model in the 'catering to a fad' category. In the world of serious academic institutions and collectors of the historically accurate, the terms naive and cartoon - come to mind.

I believe an end buyer would not care if all model parts were produced from scratch based on expensive monographs or purchased in the kits. They would only care of model appliance.

The proof that this is a belief also held by collectors with serious money is evident in the thriving market for completed kit models and serious profit being earned by large numbers of kit builders.

It is probably not good practice to denigrate and ignore scouts. Scouts who provide a map of what is real. The scouts do not set the standards or write the rules. Killing the messenger just because the message is not favorable or does not inflate illusions is not logical. Illusions of grandeur that thrive in a bubble often lead to humiliation in the real world as well as being easily scammed by sharks who play on the illusions. (Cough) museum quality (cough)

 

[Kurt Konrath]

Rtibbs philosophy 101

I personally could care less about the opinions of the so called "experts"

We now have to remember what these titles and terms mean!

We all know how we breakdown terms like "Assume" = Ass out of U & Me

For "Expert" you get "Ex" a has been, and "Spert" is drip under great pressure.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

$35 dollars sounds reasonable. I'll take 2 : P

that is a comma after the $35, 000 still interested?

 

[Bob Cleek]

I believe an end buyer would not care if all model parts were produced from scratch based on expensive monographs or purchased in the kits. They would only care of model appliance.

I believe this would be true in the case of a decorator piece purchased by an unsophisticated buyer, but decorator pieces don't generally go for large amounts, a few hundred dollars at most, "soaking wet on a good day."

It is very true that every model stands on its own merits, regardless of whether it is scratch-built or a kit-built, built with commercially sourced or 3D printed parts, or built by a collection of modelers in a production shop, none of that matters at the end of the day, but the simple fact of life is that it is a very rare kit indeed that has even the slightest chance of yielding the level of excellence in execution and archival quality "out of the box" that would be at all competitive in today's top end investment-quality ship model marketplace. In order for most any kit on the market today to compete with high-quality scratch-built models in today's market it would require so much "bashing" that a modeler sufficiently skilled to accomplish that is far more likely to build from scratch to begin with. The kit would be an impediment, rather than any sort of advantage. As the saying goes, "You can't polish a turd."

Excellence of execution, archival qualities of materials, and historical accuracy being equal in all cases, the four-figure and up models require something more. To one extent or another, a number of additional variables can add substantially to the value of a model:

1) Uniqueness: That it is not "overdone" to the point of being boring. A model which isn't one of the "usual suspects" with which the market is flooded with redundant examples. Nobody wants to pay big bucks for a model a lot of people everywhere already have.

2) Desirable subject matter: While ultimately subject to the purchaser's whim, famous warships with lots of cannon, for example, bring more money than merchant ships nobody's ever heard of.

3) A recognized artist: Perhaps the most important of these valuation factors, a model built by the likes of a McNarry, Ough, McCaffery, Hahn, or Reed is going to go for much more than the same model built by an unknown modelwright. (And, following his latest post, I should add Ab Hoving's name to the list of "Dutch Masters!" )

4) Provenance: Models with some unique provenance will bring more because they represent more than the subject vessel alone. Examples would be models formerly in the collections of famous ship model collectors such as Franklin D. Roosevelt or John F. Kennedy, or deaccessioned from well-known maritime museums or famous private collections.

5) Antiquity or historicity: Basically, antiques, these being models more than one hundred years old. This factor is also one which can operate to overcome basic defects in execution, archival qualities of materials, and historical accuracy. The prime example of such models are the contemporary Navy Board Models of the British Admiralty, many of which are somewhat crude by today's standards, yet some of the highest valued models in existence today.

6) Size: In today's market, a smaller model is more marketable than a larger one, making "miniature ship models" (below 1:200) more valuable. This is because homes and styles have changed and few homes or offices have sufficient room to display a model that is more than a couple of feet long without chasing everybody out of the room.

In summary, I think we have to recognize that the fine art market is a fickle one. A "Campbell's Soup Can" or a "Banana Duct-taped to a Wall," anyone? Prices can fluctuate wildly, depending on fashions of the moment. Keep building ship models, though. Just remember that Jackson Pollock was laughed at in the beginning, Rembrandt had his "slow period" following his wife's death, and nobody would buy a Van Gogh during his lifetime. Who knows what the future may bring?

 

[dockattner]

I believe this would be true in the case of a decorator piece purchased by an unsophisticated buyer, but decorator pieces don't generally go for large amounts, a few hundred dollars at most, "soaking wet on a good day."

It is very true that every model stands on its own merits, regardless of whether it is scratch-built or a kit-built, built with commercially sourced or 3D printed parts, or built by a collection of modelers in a production shop, none of that matters at the end of the day, but the simple fact of life is that it is a very rare kit indeed that has even the slightest chance of yielding the level of excellence in execution and archival quality "out of the box" that would be at all competitive in today's top end investment-quality ship model marketplace. In order for most any kit on the market today to compete with high-quality scratch-built models in today's market it would require so much "bashing" that a modeler sufficiently skilled to accomplish that is far more likely to build from scratch to begin with. The kit would be an impediment, rather than any sort of advantage. As the saying goes, "You can't polish a turd."

Excellence of execution, archival qualities of materials, and historical accuracy being equal in all cases, the four-figure and up models require something more. To one extent or another, a number of additional variables can add substantially to the value of a model:

1) Uniqueness: That it is not "overdone" to the point of being boring. A model which isn't one of the "usual suspects" with which the market is flooded with redundant examples. Nobody wants to pay big bucks for a model a lot of people everywhere already have.

2) Desirable subject matter: While ultimately subject to the purchaser's whim, famous warships with lots of cannon, for example, bring more money than merchant ships nobody's ever heard of.

3) A recognized artist: Perhaps the most important of these valuation factors, a model built by the likes of a McNarry, Ough, McCaffery, Hahn, or Reed is going to go for much more than the same model built by an unknown modelwright. (And, following his latest post, I should add Ab Hoving's name to the list of "Dutch Masters!" )

4) Provenance: Models with some unique provenance will bring more because they represent more than the subject vessel alone. Examples would be models formerly in the collections of famous ship model collectors such as Franklin D. Roosevelt or John F. Kennedy, or deaccessioned from well-known maritime museums or famous private collections.

5) Antiquity or historicity: Basically, antiques, these being models more than one hundred years old. This factor is also one which can operate to overcome basic defects in execution, archival qualities of materials, and historical accuracy. The prime example of such models are the contemporary Navy Board Models of the British Admiralty, many of which are somewhat crude by today's standards, yet some of the highest valued models in existence today.

6) Size: In today's market, a smaller model is more marketable than a larger one, making "miniature ship models" (below 1:200) more valuable. This is because homes and styles have changed and few homes or offices have sufficient room to display a model that is more than a couple of feet long without chasing everybody out of the room.

In summary, I think we have to recognize that the fine art market is a fickle one. A "Campbell's Soup Can" or a "Banana Duct-taped to a Wall," anyone? Prices can fluctuate wildly, depending on fashions of the moment. Keep building ship models, though. Just remember that Jackson Pollock was laughed at in the beginning, Rembrandt had his "slow period" following his wife's death, and nobody would buy a Van Gogh during his lifetime. Who knows what the future may bring?

Thank you, Bob. These points are helpful additions to the conversation.

 

[Jimsky]

A recent posting featured a ship model built by a 20th century modeler. The subject was unique (scratch-built) and was seemingly well done (more on that in a moment). The original poster was (among other things) wondering how this model could be valued (perhaps for insurance purposes, or perhaps for a future sale - it doesn't really matter).

A member of our forum offered some very helpful advice, and in that post commended both the model and the builder of the model, indicating that this model was special and would be valued by collectors. I do not in any way doubt our member's well-informed opinion vis a vis the model collector market (that is, I take him at his word that this model was valuable).

But (and I am finally getting to the subject of this thread)...

As I mentioned above this model was well done. But I know of at least a dozen modelers on our forum who could have done a better job if the measure of a model is the skillfulness of its execution. In other words, it was a really good model, but not better that many of the models routinely shown on our forum.

What is it about a model that makes it valuable to the collector community?

A unique subject (that is, not built from an Ancre monograph - just to site one example)?
A well know builder (even if that builder isn't uniquely/supremely skilled compared to others)?
Age of the model (though this particular example wasn't old)?

I'll do my best to contain thread drift, but I suspect I will ultimately fail...

That raises an interesting discussion. Thanks, mon ami!
What makes a model valuable to the collector community isn’t a single, fixed standard, because every collector brings their own priorities to a collection. For some, historical importance or rarity is paramount; for others, it’s the level of craftsmanship, accuracy, or faithfulness to original plans. Provenance, the builder's reputation, or even a personal connection to the subject can also play a decisive role. Ultimately, a model’s value often lies in how well it aligns with a collector’s own vision and tells a story that resonates with them, rather than in any universally agreed metric.