#8 Support: Seats, thwarts, yoke installation ... Paddles

Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
684
Points
353

Here we will address:
All matters related to the Seats, thwarts, yoke installation.

_DSC5503 copy copy.jpg
INDEX

Seats

- Making a seat: frame and weave: https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...s-yoke-installation-paddles.5332/#post-124151
- Hanging rods installation: https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...s-yoke-installation-paddles.5332/#post-118582

Thwarts

Yoke

- A shape option: https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...s-yoke-installation-paddles.5332/#post-118485

Paddles
- Building the paddles: https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...s-yoke-installation-paddles.5332/#post-118784
 
Last edited:
An alternate way of making the seats.
Any one interested, I can draw up a couple sketches when time comes for finishing touches.
These are a bit tedious to make but easily done in about 20 minutes each.

_DSC0741 a copy.jpg

In the past I have also done solid wood seats shaped/carved to fit a standard "behind". I do not have any of those already made but I will work on one to show as a sample. Kind of like this one made for a Kayak but without the back rest.

_DSC6267 copy.jpg

G.
 
The yoke.

First, what is it?
The yoke is a cross piece installed in the center of the canoe (usually) tying the port and starboard side of the vessel to strengthen the structure. It is also used and designed /shaped to carry the canoe by one person over the shoulders.

So you will practice your very basic carving skills....
Giving it its shape - the tools used.
Top face:

20200808_140502 aa.jpg

Under side:

20200808_140512 aa.jpg

Close-up of the same but dry fitted on the canoe.

20200808_155427 aa.jpg

20200808_155507 aa.jpg

G
 
Paddles.

I chose a "beavertail" style paddle for this canoe.
The length of the average canoe paddle is about 50 inches so for the model I made a paddle pattern 4.5 inches long. The pattern was then transferred to some lumber (Birch).

20200809_133532 aa.jpg

Then, It was on to shaping using a sharp blade and sand paper: again no power tools.
It is a fairly slow process: a bit like meditation...

20200809_140436 aa.jpg

A little more than an hour later...

20200809_151630 aa.jpg

Detail views ...

20200809_151648 a.jpg

20200809_151657 aa.jpg

20200809_151918 aa.jpg

And in place in the canoe...

_DSC1455 aa.jpg

G.
 
Is there a rule, or do you have a way of determining when a canoe needs/requires additional lateral, across-beam, support.?? I see the yoke here, but no thwarts. How do you decide.??

Also, what about seat height.?? Watching what you've done here, I suspect you have some sort of method of determining the actual location. On my full-size canoes, the seats seem to be higher (closer to the gunwale..)....although admittedly, I usually don't use them because they make the canoe less stable. The CG shifts upward (higher..) if the seats are in use. So, while lower would obviously be better, where do you put your legs/feet if you "sit" that low.?? Or, is it a 'stylistic' thing..??
 
Rule?
Well, usually a ribbed canoe does not need anymore lateral / cross support besides the center yoke or thwart... of course it depends on the length of the vessel: a 20 or 24-foot canoe would be fitted with thwarts. The yoke is sufficient to provide that support on most average ribbed canoes + it would make carrying the canoe much easier. Even the yoke doe not have to be shaped as shown it can just be more simple.

The seats in this model are a bit lower than usual (in my models). In most cases, it is a matter of aesthetics and balance: but not the balance you are referring to, more like the balance of proportions in the model itself.
No one is going to sit or kneel in the model so comfort takes on a "second seat" in the considerations.

G.
 
Last edited:
Rule?
Well, usually a ribbed canoe does not need anymore lateral / cross support besides the center yoke or thwart... of course it depends on the length of the vessel: a 20 or 24-foot canoe would be fitted with thwarts. The yoke is sufficient to provide that support on most average ribbed canoes + it would make carrying the canoe much easier. Even the yoke doe not have to be shaped as shown it can just be more simple.

The seats in this model are a bit lower than usual (in my models). In most cases, it is a matter on aesthetics and balance: but not the balance you are referring to, most like the balance of proportions in the model itself.
No one is going to sit or kneel in the model so comfort takes on a "second seat" in the considerations.

G.

OK.... So, in this case, aesthetics is the deciding factor. I’m in 100% agreement. That’s the way I will proceed (when I get the rest of my Pear wood..).

My larger canoes (19’..) both had thwarts. Sometimes they seemed to be in the way. Other times, I was happy to have them.!! Especially convenient for two-man carry around obstacles, short, tricky portages, etc..
Thanks, Gilles
 
In regards to the Thwarts ....
Further to my post above, I forgot to mention that in my models, the decks are regularly much longer than your average deck on your average canoe. So this also reinforces the lateral support helping the canoes keep its shape.
I am working on a 17-inch canoe model right now.... and it will have a short deck... so it may have thwarts as well.
G
 
In regards to the Thwarts ....
Further to my post above, I forgot to mention that in my models, the decks are regularly much longer than your average deck on your average canoe. So this also reinforces the lateral support helping the canoes keep its shape.
I am working on a 17-inch canoe model right now.... and it will have a short deck... so it may have thwarts as well.
G

Yes...I can see how the additional length on the decks would add to the lateral support. It makes perfect sense.
Thanks...
 
Seats

The seat for the canoe can be made entirely out of wood. Another way is to cut or build a frame complemented with woven thread.

The seat I include in my canoes have been a combination of a wood frame and woven thread. As far as the frame is concerned, I tend to normally make the frame out of 1 piece of lumber cut from 3/32” (2.5 mm) thick sheet wood. In some cases, I may even laminate 2 – 1/16” piece together to strengthen it as they sometimes curve under the tension of the thread.

But for this demonstration, I decided to actually build the frame from strips 3/32 x 3/32” (2.5 x 25 mm). You will note that when cutting the strips to lock into each other, I did not cut a half-lap notch: and I will explain the reason why as I get into the weaving part of making the seat.

Using a one-piece frame or a built up frame is mainly subject to the kind of lumber used. I have tried a number of species with some success: cherry, maple, birch, black walnut, mahogany and for every 2 or 3 frames built at least on of them would severely curve / bend or even brake due to some tension build-up while weaving the thread. Cutting, assembling the frame takes time and so does the weaving: so when a frame become unusable half way through the weaving process is kind of disappointing. This said, building the frame would end up being more realistic so it may be worth it.

Making the seat: my method. As always, this is the way I make them, it is just my way, it is not the only way to make them and certainly not the best way.

The frame either cut from one piece or built up.
In this case built up from pear wood: 3/32 x 3/32” (2.5 x 2.5 mm). The parts are glued together with wood glue. I have also included a nail right through the corners at the joints.

20200902_085421 aa.jpg

So when the seat frame is assembled, the glue is dry, it is time to begin the weaving process.
The thread is tied by a knot in the top left corner. holding the frame facing the top of the seat, the thread is wrapped twice around the frame's top / cross batten (the longer one): starting the wrap from the back / bottom side of the seat, ending the 2 wraps on the back side so that the thread continues towards the other cross batten from the back as well. The thread is then wrapped 2 turns around the lower batten before running back to the opposite batten. Wrapping then continues all the way to the end of each cross batten in the same way.


20200902_100832 aa.jpg

The end result, the thread should run 2 turns around the top batten, straight down to the back of the lower batten where it is also wrapped 2 turns before traveling forward up to the front of the top batten again. The same is repeated to the end of both cross battens to complete laying down the thread for the first step in the weave.

The top face of the seat

20200902_102556 aa.jpg


The back

20200902_102604 aa.jpg

As mentioned at the start of this post, the frame was assembled with half-lap joints: although not quite. in fact the shorter battens are slightly recessed (set lower than the longer batten) into the frame.
This is due to trying to ease the tension from the actual weave. It also eases passing the needle over and under the thread already laid: well, at least I like to believe it does....

So, to begin the cross weave: the thread is wrapped 2 turns around the first batten, again having the thread running from one batten to the next from the back so that the end of the 2 wraps ends on the top face of the seat.
From there, the tread runs over / under each thread already laid, then is wrapped 3 times before running over the top and straight down the back toward the lower batten where is wrapped 3 times around before being thread under / over the cross threads. the process is repeated over the length of the battens to end on the other side of the seat.

20200902_104818 aa.jpg

The back side view...

20200902_104834 aa.jpg

The thread through using a needle...

20200902_140310 aa.jpg

A short video showing the process of straightening the thread after the over / under threading...

View attachment 20200902_150715.mp4
















This seat is done ... just need to complete the wood work by trimming the extra batten length...... but what to do .....

20200902_163307 aa.jpg

I often use close-up photos or at least close-up view through my phone for quality control.
if it stands up in close-up view it looks good at naked eye.
And here is something I did not notice until I looked at the photo:
So does it need to be redone? Knowing how much it took to get to this point on that seat.

Anyways, now back to work on another one...

G.
 
The second seat is done. This one only took a little more than an hour to make: including the frame.
I should also mention that the notches in the frames are cut by hand with a sharp knife: again, I do not use power tools.

20200902_210139 aa.jpg

And comparison shot with the one made earlier today (the one that will probably be redone) on the right...

20200902_210208 aa.jpg

G.
 
The second seat is done. This one only took a little more than an hour to make: including the frame.
I should also mention that the notches in the frames are cut by hand with a sharp knife: again, I do not use power tools.

View attachment 176877

And comparison shot with the one made earlier today (the one that will probably be redone) on the right...

View attachment 176878

G.
Weaving the top crossing is definitely easier to do and eliminate the distortion and irregularities that I got by weaving both upper and lower together in the over and under sequence which I then could not space out evenly. With those frames glued in (Titebond water base) I don't know if I could get them back out or not. Wish I could but I'll sadly leave them as is in my learner's boat and do it properly in the upcoming 17 inch one for which I order Mahogany as a variation but not knowing about the bending properties compared to the Cherry or final grain and color. I can work up the seats ahead of time so that they will be correct. Thanks. PT-2
 
The look of the seat may be bothersome to some viewers when weaving with only a top crossing as the underside thread lines can be seen. Depending on how the thread is stopped and tied on the underside, the look can be "messy" (like what can be seen on my seat).
So in order to hide the mess, either the knots can be better located, neater or the whole underside lines can be hidden.
Here is an idea:
I inserted pieces of Q-tip cotton through the back to fill the empty space . In this case, one may want to do a tighter weave though!

_DSC2295 aa.jpg

On the 17" canoe, the area in question is 2.5 x 1.5 cm (the empty space within the frame).

G
 
The look of the seat may be bothersome to some viewers when weaving with only a top crossing as the underside thread lines can be seen. Depending on how the thread is stopped and tied on the underside, the look can be "messy" (like what can be seen on my seat).
So in order to hide the mess, either the knots can be better located, neater or the whole underside lines can be hidden.
Here is an idea:
I inserted pieces of Q-tip cotton through the back to fill the empty space . In this case, one may want to do a tighter weave though!

View attachment 177184

On the 17" canoe, the area in question is 2.5 x 1.5 cm (the empty space within the frame).

G
Alternatives may be to use a darker thread or possibly, depending upon the thread fiber itself to carefully apply some flat black paint to the underside threads so that they are not as visible. If not black then a darker brown color matching the inside wood finish. When I made my first seats (only ones so far) I chose to use black thread for this visibility reason. Just thoughts for consideration. PT-2
 
Paddles....
They can be made in different shape and different ways: one or several pieces.
The paddles below will likely end up as part of the 17-inch pear wood model. They are made from pear wood and entirely shape by hand. The material used: mostly from the 3.2 mm (1/8th inch) stock and the 2 accent strips from 6.4 x 0.8 mm (1/4 x 1/32") strip:
Tools: Jeweler saw, round file and sand paper of various grit (120, 320, 600 - then polished with 1500)
A few photos to illustrate the before and after... It took about 1.5 hour to do the sanding to shape after assembly and glue drying.

_DSC2455 aa.jpg

_DSC2462 aa.jpg

_DSC2463 aa.jpg

_DSC2464 aa.jpg

_DSC2466 aa.jpg

As I mentioned somewhere else, I often use close-up photos to see if I missed anything and for quality control.
In this case, I notice that the paddle would look better if the shaft was tapered down towards the handle from the front and back: it is already tapered on the sides from the top of the blade up. But that will be done tomorrow...

G.
 
Paddles.

I chose a "beavertail" style paddle for this canoe.
The length of the average canoe paddle is about 50 inches so for the model I made a paddle pattern 4.5 inches long. The pattern was then transferred to some lumber (Birch).

View attachment 171951

Then, It was on to shaping using a sharp blade and sand paper: again no power tools.
It is a fairly slow process: a bit like meditation...

View attachment 171952

A little more than an hour later...

View attachment 171953

Detail views ...

View attachment 171954

View attachment 171955

View attachment 171957

And in place in the canoe...

View attachment 171959

G.
Any chance you can post files of drawings for paddle and yoke for us?
 
Back
Top