AL Constellation build

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I have the bulkheads fairing nearly done. Since the slope doesn't have the gun deck visible, I have decided to close the spar deck so I cut a piece of ply to fit the space. I'll extend the frame ends to catch this section and I may just make the whole deck one piece haven't decided yet.

I will have to build new Bulwarks,The supplied ones may not be of any use. I think I'm going to make cannons and carriages so they look more like the present ones on the ship. I'm just not happy with the supplied set up. 20201128_113530.jpg20201128_113342.jpg
 
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I have the bulkheads fairing nearly done. Since the slope doesn't have the gun deck visible, I have decided to close the spar deck so I cut a piece of ply to fit the space. I'll extend the frame ends to catch this section and I may just make the whole deck one piece haven't decided yet.

I will have to build new Bulwarks,The supplied ones may not be of any use. I think I'm going to make cannons and carriages so they look more like the present ones on the ship. I'm just not happy with the supplied set up. View attachment 195805View attachment 195806
Your progress looks very well crafted and faired. I like your angle clamping idea. Rich (PT-2)
 

Jimsky

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Spent some time working on a cannon what do you think. I reshaped one of the cannons from the kit and built a new carriage. The cannon looks a bit to small for the carriage so ill turn some cannons on the lathe and see if I can work it out.
I kinda agree with you bro, the carriage looks great, but the barrel looks small for it.
 
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I kinda agree with you bro, the carriage looks great, but the barrel looks small for it.
funny thing is the carriage is the same length as supplied in the kit, but me turning down the high areas of the supplied cannons made them to small in diameter. I think instead of turning brass on the lathe for all the cannons I need I will make one on the lathe a tad bigger for shrinkage then use it as a template and fire up the metal foundry to pour them all at one time. I will leave the sprue long so I can chuck it up by the sprue and use the lathe to clean it up with steel wool.
 
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Spent some time working on a cannon what do you think. I reshaped one of the cannons from the kit and built a new carriage. The cannon looks a bit to small for the carriage so ill turn some cannons on the lathe and see if I can work it out.View attachment 196051View attachment 196052
Not to be picky but I think that the curved upside down hairpin is a hinge located on the breach end of the trunnion and not forward to the muzzle where there is a vertical flat rod extension with a slotted hole for a flat locking pin to be inserted, which is kept in the general area with a small chain. The eyebolt on the a carriage side is too large and thick in scale. If you have or can twist something smaller it well be visually more in place to my eye. Just thoughts for consideration. Naval artillery is just something that I am interested in and tend to view more closely than some other things with which I know very little. Rich (PT-2)
 
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yep missed the trunnion cap pin placement, I put them on backward, they are just pressed in no glue. The eye bolt on the side for the breaching rope is just for looks to have something in that spot the constellation guns use a shackle that I will be making. this cannon isn't a final its just something I put together in an hour to see how the Cannon barrel was gonna look. the sides of the carriage are also to thick. once I finalize what I'm trying to create i'll make sure everything is correct in its place and size I'm trying to recreate this cannon. my wife thinks it's dumb to make them since they really wont be seen other then the barrels sticking out. this ship will get display cased. I'll be making two guns for the spar deck one at the bow the other at the stern. will be the sled mounted 360* cannons. I may build another cannon the same as those on the gun deck as a stand alone display in the case with the ship since those gun deck cannons wont be visible.
IMG_3307.jpg


viii_inch_dahlgren_gun_uss_constellation_by_aya_wavedancer-d5lko32.jpg22221-5d3f414088bf6982e428101830aa8382.jpg
 
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Yep I have that book, you recommended it to me a couple years ago. I'm building the slope out of this kit. I'll build the Frigate version scratch POF possibly from the books plans or a set in the other books I have, Since there are no original plans I'm forced to build it that way unless I can find a good plan set of Congress which is believed to be the same Per my reading
 
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yep missed the trunnion cap pin placement, I put them on backward, they are just pressed in no glue. The eye bolt on the side for the breaching rope is just for looks to have something in that spot the constellation guns use a shackle that I will be making. this cannon isn't a final its just something I put together in an hour to see how the Cannon barrel was gonna look. the sides of the carriage are also to thick. once I finalize what I'm trying to create i'll make sure everything is correct in its place and size I'm trying to recreate this cannon. my wife thinks it's dumb to make them since they really wont be seen other then the barrels sticking out. this ship will get display cased. I'll be making two guns for the spar deck one at the bow the other at the stern. will be the sled mounted 360* cannons. I may build another cannon the same as those on the gun deck as a stand alone display in the case with the ship since those gun deck cannons wont be visible.
View attachment 196089


View attachment 196086View attachment 196084
A last bit of nit picking before you move from this prototype to refined carriages is that the cap-piece over the trunnions needs to be radiused and not flat. That creates a bit of thinking how to do that. I used my thin copper (so I could blacken it) to roll it over a drill bit and do some work with a hammer and file handle edge as a chisel to form the 90 degree transition from the radius to the flat top of the carriage. You will know what these look like and might even do a couple for your presentation as awaiting loading. . . although the much heavier barrel would have been lifted aboard separately from the carriage and wheels which could be assembled once on board. Keep up your focus on details seen or not. Rich (PT-2)
 
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I know it should have a radius, When your running a piece of brass over a pin thats only 1mm diameter there will be no bending of the brass plate lol I have thin sheet brass thats shim stock but its super thin and wouldn't look good. Definately don't want to use thin copper for the same reason. if the cannons were half the size they are now I'd be ok with something super thin. It sucks trying to balance scale especially in the details. the only acceptable way around the issue is to make the cannons with properly sized trunnions. unfortunately the cannons supplied in kits don't have properly dimensioned trunnions.

I was going to use some tubing over the tiny pin or even some wire insulation to simulate the proper size trunnion. I am going to turn some brass later today to figure out a good size for the carriage I built then I'll measure it and draw it up in cad as 22 cannons on an extended sprue runners. I'll use that as a form and pour some brass or maybe even aluminum, I can use Birchwood casey aluminum black to color them can even buff that to put a shine on the cannons barrels.

I do have another cannon issue to work out. I have to figure out what color the carriage is I'm not good at mixing colors and I don't remember seeing that color in any of the model paints I've seen, so maybe I'll take a picture to the paint store and see if they can match up the color, I'll thin it down with windex and airbrush them.
 
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I know it should have a radius, When your running a piece of brass over a pin thats only 1mm diameter there will be no bending of the brass plate lol I have thin sheet brass thats shim stock but its super thin and wouldn't look good. Definately don't want to use thin copper for the same reason. if the cannons were half the size they are now I'd be ok with something super thin. It sucks trying to balance scale especially in the details. the only acceptable way around the issue is to make the cannons with properly sized trunnions. unfortunately the cannons supplied in kits don't have properly dimensioned trunnions.

I was going to use some tubing over the tiny pin or even some wire insulation to simulate the proper size trunnion. I am going to turn some brass later today to figure out a good size for the carriage I built then I'll measure it and draw it up in cad as 22 cannons on an extended sprue runners. I'll use that as a form and pour some brass or maybe even aluminum, I can use Birchwood casey aluminum black to color them can even buff that to put a shine on the cannons barrels.

I do have another cannon issue to work out. I have to figure out what color the carriage is I'm not good at mixing colors and I don't remember seeing that color in any of the model paints I've seen, so maybe I'll take a picture to the paint store and see if they can match up the color, I'll thin it down with windex and airbrush them.
I have my model and firing cannon carriages in a dark red: Testors enamel, the label by the shop on the bottle reads: TES1104TT HHD 104 081219 but I don't know if that is the color numbering or the shop number. It is not a fire engine red but a darker red. RIch
 
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The cannon carriages on the sloop are a tan or beige color. The pictures in post #67 above are the actual cannons on the ship.. I suspect they were red on the Frigate version.
 
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Got a cannon turned down I'm happy with how it turned out. Got the breaching rope cut into it and better trunnions. Still need to figure out the paint for the Carriage Got a cannon turned down I'm happy with how it turned out. Got the breaching rope cut into it and better trunnions. Still need to figure out the paint, So I'll visit the paint store tomorrow.
View attachment 196466View attachment 196467View attachment 196468


View attachment 196469Those in the photos look like carronades. . . no accuracy but massive destruction force a very close range. . . 40 lb ball shot. The carriages look like plastic redo's. being so smooth and shiney. Rich (PT-2)
 
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No carronades on the sloop gun deck the carronades the frigate carried were on the spar deck for and aft on sleds. Deck (Main battery): Sixteen 8 in. chambered shell guns, four 32-pdr. long guns; Spar Deck (Pivot guns): one 30-pdr. Parrott rifle at the bow and one 20-pdr. Parrott rifle at the stern; three 12-pdr. boat howitzers
Don't know about the carriages one of the carriages that was smooth that I saw had a ding and definately wood I think they are epoxy painted which would account for the smooth finish as that medium seeks level. I read an article that new age products were used on the repairs of constellations hull resin infusion I believe it was.

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No carronades on the sloop gun deck the carronades the frigate carried were on the spar deck for and aft on sleds. Deck (Main battery): Sixteen 8 in. chambered shell guns, four 32-pdr. long guns; Spar Deck (Pivot guns): one 30-pdr. Parrott rifle at the bow and one 20-pdr. Parrott rifle at the stern; three 12-pdr. boat howitzers
Don't know about the carriages one of the carriages that was smooth that I saw had a ding and definately wood I think they are epoxy painted which would account for the smooth finish as that medium seeks level. I read an article that new age products were used on the repairs of constellations hull resin infusion I believe it was.
No carronades on the sloop gun deck the carronades the frigate carried were on the spar deck for and aft on sleds. Deck (Main battery): Sixteen 8 in. chambered shell guns, four 32-pdr. long guns; Spar Deck (Pivot guns): one 30-pdr. Parrott rifle at the bow and one 20-pdr. Parrott rifle at the stern; three 12-pdr. boat howitzers
Don't know about the carriages one of the carriages that was smooth that I saw had a ding and definately wood I think they are epoxy painted which would account for the smooth finish as that medium seeks level. I read an article that new age products were used on the repairs of constellations hull resin infusion I believe it was.

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Thank you for taking the time to explain the armament arrangement and restoration finishes. I think it is too bad that they used a finish with appearance that would not have been more actual than lazy protective. (My wording). I also would question the flemishing down of the lines as that style does not seem logical when sailing and clear deck space was needed or readying to fire when actual need to grasp and pull or flake down before the next very hurried firing sequence would begin. Just my mind working. Rich (PT-2)
 
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no doubt the modern restoration process was purely financial. Historical accuracy be damned when it comes to the almighty buck. My mind says they use modern finishes because they don't degrade like older finishes do, in the long run less payout for upkeep. I'm very much for keeping it accurate but in the case of Constellation no one actually knows what's deemed accurate. there are several plan sets and dozens of conflicting measurements. I wouldn't even bother to try and build it except I seem to have some unusual draw to that vessel. I first saw it in the 70s as a kid and from that point on I was at the Harbor as much as I could to look at it, it disappeared several times over my life for repairs and such. I want to build the Frigate version because its difficult and I love a good challenge. It wont be accurate I know that, but I'll do the best I can with the information I have. as far as the sloop is concerned I believe based on the Information I've read that its a different vessel so I'll build the sloop as well with information I can visually verify from visits to the ship and pictures I've collected and taken. I may of may not add the parrott guns for and aft however I will make them to go in the display case. At present I'm still recovering from Medical issues so I cant sit in the shipyard for extended periods of time but I'm getting stronger and my energy is returning so once I get rolling things will happen much faster on this current sloop build.
 
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no doubt the modern restoration process was purely financial. Historical accuracy be damned when it comes to the almighty buck. My mind says they use modern finishes because they don't degrade like older finishes do, in the long run less payout for upkeep. I'm very much for keeping it accurate but in the case of Constellation no one actually knows what's deemed accurate. there are several plan sets and dozens of conflicting measurements. I wouldn't even bother to try and build it except I seem to have some unusual draw to that vessel. I first saw it in the 70s as a kid and from that point on I was at the Harbor as much as I could to look at it, it disappeared several times over my life for repairs and such. I want to build the Frigate version because its difficult and I love a good challenge. It wont be accurate I know that, but I'll do the best I can with the information I have. as far as the sloop is concerned I believe based on the Information I've read that its a different vessel so I'll build the sloop as well with information I can visually verify from visits to the ship and pictures I've collected and taken. I may of may not add the parrott guns for and aft however I will make them to go in the display case. At present I'm still recovering from Medical issues so I cant sit in the shipyard for extended periods of time but I'm getting stronger and my energy is returning so once I get rolling things will happen much faster on this current sloop build.
I hope that you recovery progresses well. My brother, who is an expert in British Royal Navy before and after the Napolionic era has written of calling a ship a sloop or frigate depending upon the rank and approval of the Royal Navy Admiralty with way but I don't recall the specific details without going back and doing some re-reading of his information in a lengthy semi-historical / fictional epic work. I am not sure of the early years of the Constitution and am certain that the US did not follow the British manner. However you decide I am sure that your ship will turn out well. Listen to your body and recover well to build better. rRich (PT-2)
 
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