Bunt Line Question

[Signet]

On my Ragusian Carrack, I want to include Bunt Lines, but have seen conflicting information on them. I know the lines are connected to bottom of the sails, with ropes going to blocks in front of the sails, etc. But I get conflicting information as to whether the lines also go in the BACK of the sails and up to the spar.

This diagram from this post:

clearly shows them connected to cringles only at the FRONT of the sail. In addition, zo Mondfeld states "Bunt lines were carried on the fore side of the sail only."

While the diagram from this post:

clearly shows them going under the sail and up to connect to the spar.

To me, though, attaching the bunt lines only to the front would not contain the sails when pulled up, but would instead case them to fold, allowing the center to drop down below the bottom, while lines on both sides would hold them very well. To explain what I'm saying, I made two diagrams:

The above left shows how I think the sail would furl if the buntlines went around the bottom and up the back, while the above right shows how I think it would furl (more fold, in this case) if attached only to the front. I've never seen a sail that looked like the one on the right, only the left.

So, can someone please set me straight?

 

[Signet]

BUMP!

84 views and no one knows the answer? That's difficult to believe, with all the experts here.

 

[Signet]

I see more and more information that the buntlines were simply attached to the cringles, rather than through them and up the aft side of the sail. And I have to admit that ropes going through a cringle, which are pulled through every time the sail is furled without a block, would definitely wear the rope, sail and cringle. The one diagram I have above is probably the ONLY one that shows the rope going though, so I'm thinking they must have been only attached to the cringle, and not run aft of the sail. I still don't understand how they could furl so evenly, though.

 

[Signet]

I've run across a number of diagrams that may explain the operation of buntlines better:

I had previously read a description of buntlines that mentioned lizards, but had no idea what they were.



And from a modern training manual on a tall ship:


While these diagrams are for more modern ships than my Carrack model, the idea makes perfect sense. Pulling on the buntlines pulls the ropes through the bull's eyes, more or less corrugating the sail, even though they are only on the fore side. I think this answers my question, and I will model a form of this.

 

[Enzo]

I believe it is essential first of all to establish the reference period, the type of vessel and its nationality. For English ships Marquardt (eighteenth century rigs & rigging) provides descriptions of buntlines in CHAPTER XII, and the only ones that wrap around the sail (fore and aft) that I have noticed are temporary spilling lines (harbour leechlines). That's all I know.

 

[Maarten]

Hi @Signet

Your ragusian Carrack is most probably 16th century and the pictures you show are from much later periods like 18th century.
From the 16th century there is not a lot known but for sure rigging was much moren simple and in a stage of devellopment. Also it was still common to lower the main yard when removing sail instead of pulling the sail up for which you need bunt lines so I ask myself the question if there were even buntlines in those days.

Below you see a contemporary etsch of a Carrack where only leechlines are visible.


On the second picture you see the fore sail furled again no buntlines.


Carrack rigging example.


If I were you I would not add them. Check the rigging of Santa Maria replica, she is a Nao which is a Portugese Carrack.

Hope it helps.