Configuration of hull riders - English 18th century ships?

The Doc

The Doc

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I'm doing a cross section (of an English ship, 1790) and would like to get the hull riders done before moving to the next stage but I'm finding it very difficult to find much information as to how each section is attached to the others as well as to the ships hull.
The only image I have is the following which I received from an MSW forum member >
Riders-.jpg
I understand that they comprise of a floor rider, two futtock riders and two breadth riders at each location -- five sections in total for each rider. The section I am doing should have three separate riders.
Just hoping for some info on attachment points between sections, and from what I've seen on build logs of European ships, the floor rider doesn't appear to be attached (by nails or bolts) to the keelson --- it just appears to ride over the keelson without attachment. Is this the same for floor riders on English ships?
 
Which type of ship do you build? Means frigate or ship of line?
Maybe you can tell us exact class, so I can search for more details especially for the ship you are looking for.

Your HMS Leopard is from the same period, so do you build a section of the Leopard?
 
Yes Uwe, it's a section of the Leopard I'm building.

I've asked my friend, Google, but have come up with nothing there. I have The Fifty Gun Ship book by Rif Winfield but even there, there's virtually nothing in the way of information below the orlop deck . . . and nothing about riders except in the following drawing which reveals there are five riders, three of which will be in my cross section.
I've indicated the riders in red >
Riders red.jpg
 
Hi Jim
I checked this out in Lavery's book.The riders are not bolted to one another and the keelson.They are through bolted to the hull frames.The bolts were clenched from the outside in counterbores in the plank/frame and then covered with a wooden plug

Kind Regards

Nigel
 
Thanks for your input, Nigel.
The following images are from a French build ~ I've been unable to find decent pics of riders in an English build! The first image shows the riders bolted through from one side to the other, but you're saying English practice didn't do this >
Riders French-.jpg
The next pic shows these French riders bolted down through the frames. I expect that English riders were bolted in a similar pattern? >
Riders French--.jpg
 
I was also looking around
1) The form of the five riders of the Leopard is shown on the drawing attached to the book you mentioned already
3.jpg
So it is definitely different to the form shown in your first photo you received by somebody else.

This is also confirmed by the information Peter Goodwin is giving us in his book "Construction and Fitting...."
2.jpg

1.jpg

Hope this is helping.......
 
Hi Uwe,
I'm beginning to get a firm idea of how I'll create the riders. As you've probably found, there isn't an abundance of information out there about the riders, and what there is can be a bit confusing.
I already have that first image you posted above (post #6) and I also posted it in the first post of my cross section log. To anyone who wouldn't know better, and that included me before I started the cross section, that drawing would suggest that the rider shown is one single piece running from just under the lower gun deck on port side, down the hull, over the keel and back up to the lower gun deck beam on starboard side. I now know that the riders consisted of at least five sections, and as your images in your post #6 above show, there were sometimes more than five.
I'm going with five sections for each rider. For three riders that will be fifteen sections so that will keep me busy for a time!
 
Dear Doc And to other friends :)
well done for the research and meticulous attention to detail and preservation of historical authenticity.
I learned another important detail in the field , and doc the result looks great Thumbsup Thumbsup
 
Thanks garyshipwright and shota70 for the comments.

Gary -- I'm now past the riders part of the build and onto other challenging things!
This is about the only photo I have of the finished riders. I waited until the orlop deck beams were in place before fitting the final breadth riders up to lower gun deck level (that's why the picture is a bit busy with all sorts of 'bits of wood' all over the place!) >>>
Breadth Riders..jpg

shota70 -- you wrote " well done for the research and meticulous attention to detail and preservation of historical authenticity."

I can't claim that what I'm building is historically accurate as there are quite a lot of gaps in the information available. What I've had to do is research ships from the latter part of the 18th century and I'm trying to incorporate details from these into my section build. I entitled my build as a "Cross section of HMS Leopard" but in reality what I'm hoping to achieve is an acceptable representation of a section of a 50 gun ship from that period. (Late 1700s)
 
In my opinion, your work and the results you achieve are simply the finest
 
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