Gorilla Super Glue (Multi-Surface)

Viktor98

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#1
What is the life span of Gorilla Super Glue (Multi-Surface) I wonder? Claiming that it can be used for wood, and I did use it for the deck planking, I wonder how it would hold up for the second planking of a hull if the planks were say, 0.5mm thick? Not "Hold Up" as in strength, but longevity. Could it possibly outlive wood glue?
 

didit

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#2
In response to the question of how long super glue will hold (Questions & Answers, FSM, March 2012), I started using super glue (cyanoacrylate) in the late 1960s to attach brass detail parts to cast-brass boilers on model railroad S scale steam locomotives (as opposed to using solder). More than 40 years later, the parts are still firmly attached with no sign of deteriorating joints or diminished strength.
Tip submitted by:
Harold SieglerCoon Rapids, Iowa

The life of a model is dependent on lots of things. I have built models that only had a life-span of a few days because they were either dropped or squashed flat whilst being delivered. A friend of mine has been building a 74-gun ship of the line for over 30 years. The planking was all stuck on with superglue that he first used well over 20 years ago and it is still OK. I have one or two models that I built about 25 years ago with it and they are still OK. Who is to say which glue will outlive other glues?

If you are talking about the original Gorilla Glue and not one of the recent super glue spin-offs, it would not be unreasonable to expect a bond life of 10 years are more.
Exceptions would be where the material you bonded breaks down or you have only a small bond surface area that is subjected to constant load or rapid shear force. The adhesive itself is robust enough not to significantly degrade in normal environments for a long time. In ideal conditions it could easily outlast either of us.
 
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Viktor98

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#3
In response to the question of how long super glue will hold (Questions & Answers, FSM, March 2012), I started using super glue (cyanoacrylate) in the late 1960s to attach brass detail parts to cast-brass boilers on model railroad S scale steam locomotives (as opposed to using solder). More than 40 years later, the parts are still firmly attached with no sign of deteriorating joints or diminished strength.
Tip submitted by:
Harold SieglerCoon Rapids, Iowa

The life of a model is dependent on lots of things. I have built models that only had a life-span of a few days because they were either dropped or squashed flat whilst being delivered. A friend of mine has been building a 74-gun ship of the line for over 30 years. The planking was all stuck on with superglue that he first used well over 20 years ago and it is still OK. I have one or two models that I built about 25 years ago with it and they are still OK. Who is to say which glue will outlive other glues?
I do believe that you have answered my question, didit. And I thank you for your reply ;):D
 

didit

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#4
back in the 1980 model ship builders were skeptical about the CA type glues thinking they will become brittle in time and the joint will fall apart. I have models I built back then and are still holding tight, that's over 30 years ago.

as technology marches forward and 50 years in the future you model is coming apart I bet by then there will be craftsman and technology to repair it. so I would not worry about it the super CA glue will out live you and well into the next generation.

I have tried different brands and they all seem to be the same

I wonder why model ship builders go through all the trouble coming up with clamps to hold planking to the hull while the glue sets. it takes 10 seconds for CA glue to grab and BAM! your done.
 
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Viktor98

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#5
That certainly defies what most have to say. I know of one individual that only builds with CA glue, and even goes so far as to coat the finished hull with the CA glue for added strength. I wasn't sure that the CA glue would last, as he is a young man, and "Time Tested" was not on his side, you see. This young man even coats the finished hull with CA glue for added strength, he says. I'm not so fond of the look, plus that's a lot of fumes, I would think.
 

Jimsky

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#6
I wonder why model ship builders go through all the trouble coming up with clamps to hold planking to the hull while the glue sets.
I guess the biggest challenge while using CA glue for the finishing planks is that glue goes into the wood and makes it impossible to stain or varnish using oils :(, for example. Also, most of CA glues leave 'foggy' surface when dried. For years I am using PVA for wood and have great success. However, if there a metal parts, I will use CA.
 

didit

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#7
Everyone is familiar with epoxies and acrylic resins. They are two-part adhesives that when the two parts are mixed a chemical reaction takes place that causes them to harden. They're very strong because they form long complex molecules that resist breaking and grab onto any microscope roughness in the surfaces they touch. One of the parts is the resin and the other is the hardener.

Super glue is nothing more than the same type of two-part adhesive, only in its case the hardener is water. Even apparently dry surfaces have microscopic droplets of water adhering to them. When super glue comes in contact with these droplets they create the chemical reaction that causes the super glue to harden.

With this in mind, super glue should work best in humid areas and less well in very dry desert locations. Also, a wipe of both surfaces with a very slightly damp cloth may speed the adhesive's setting. Another idea would be to "huff" on the pieces as if they were a mirror you wanted to fog. This also explains why putting extra super glue on a surface doesn't help. Until it can absorb enough water vapor from the air it'll never harden. In fact, as it starts to harden the surface of the exposed blob of super glue will form a shell that inhibits water vapor from penetrating deeper so the hardening process will grind to a stop.

Why does super glue stick so well to skin? First, under a microscope skin is an adhesive's dream. It's full of large, medium, small and microscopic grooves and pores that provide the perfect type of roughness for glues to grab. Second, the tissues are saturated with water so the super glue can soak in as deep as it wants and still find water to cause the hardening reaction.

The super glue that doctors use is different than the type available in hardware stores. Surgical super glue contains types of alcohols that are less toxic to human tissue. The type sold in stores use ethyl of methyl alcohols that can kill cells.

preventing CA glue from drying out on tip of bottle

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Prevent-Super-Glue-from-Drying/
 

didit

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#8
2016freezer, glue, Missouri, super glue


“What’s the permanence of super glue?” someone asked me the other day. It’s an interesting question and unfortunately, the answer is, it depends.

If keep the object indoors in a temperature and humidity controlled environment and away from a lot of of side by side force, it’s pretty permanent. You can debond super glue with chemicals like acetone. But if you don’t do that, it will last decades. I have stuff I glued together 25 years ago that’s still holding together fine.
But super glue is very sensitive to side to side movement. Its up and down strength is exceptional, but it’s brittle, like a lot of rocks. If you bang your head on granite you’ll regret it. But if you drop a piece of granite on the ground, it will shatter. Super glue is like that. Its tensile strength is great but its sheer strength leaves something to be desired.
I once glued a post on a ceiling fan back together. It held for a few years, but then when I bumped the fan one day, it popped right back apart.
It’s also really sensitive to temperature. Put something you glued together in the freezer overnight, then when you take it out, you can pull it back apart rather easily. So if I glued something together and put it outside, I wouldn’t expect it to get through the month of January in Missouri. July maybe, but definitely not January. So when you use super glue outdoors, it’s definitely a temporary fix.
 

Viktor98

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#9
I guess the biggest challenge while using CA glue for the finishing planks is that glue goes into the wood and makes it impossible to stain or varnish using oils :(, for example. Also, most of CA glues leave 'foggy' surface when dried. For years I am using PVA for wood and have great success. However, if there a metal parts, I will use CA.
I guess that depends on the ability to keep the glue on the correct side. I used CA glue for my entire deck planking, and was able to apply a wonderful oil based coat to seal it. Not to much though ;)
 

Viktor98

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#10
2016freezer, glue, Missouri, super glue


“What’s the permanence of super glue?” someone asked me the other day. It’s an interesting question and unfortunately, the answer is, it depends.

If keep the object indoors in a temperature and humidity controlled environment and away from a lot of of side by side force, it’s pretty permanent. You can debond super glue with chemicals like acetone. But if you don’t do that, it will last decades. I have stuff I glued together 25 years ago that’s still holding together fine.
But super glue is very sensitive to side to side movement. Its up and down strength is exceptional, but it’s brittle, like a lot of rocks. If you bang your head on granite you’ll regret it. But if you drop a piece of granite on the ground, it will shatter. Super glue is like that. Its tensile strength is great but its sheer strength leaves something to be desired.
I once glued a post on a ceiling fan back together. It held for a few years, but then when I bumped the fan one day, it popped right back apart.
It’s also really sensitive to temperature. Put something you glued together in the freezer overnight, then when you take it out, you can pull it back apart rather easily. So if I glued something together and put it outside, I wouldn’t expect it to get through the month of January in Missouri. July maybe, but definitely not January. So when you use super glue outdoors, it’s definitely a temporary fix.
Well, then I guess the good thing I have going for me is that my ship won't fit in the freezer, and it's 100% humidity all year long here in the Deep South ;) ROTF
 

didit

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#11
great just don't freeze it or pry it apart and your good to go for a long, long time or float it in as acetone or nail polish remover

anything else you need answered or are you good?
 

ron0909

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#13
The Gorilla glue I use has the blue cap (impact tough formula)...supposedly there is a rubber particulate added to the mix. Although it isn't instant and tends to be thicker than average, it bonds like no other I've used. It also doesn't seep through the veneer at all. I built my Bellona using it and it has had no issues and I've used it extensively for certain card model applications. A big plus with this stuff is one still has a couple seconds to wiggle a piece into place if needed! The only time I have ever seen bonding problems has been when trying to bond certain plastics. Cyanoacrylate doesn't like Kapton or polypropylene too much but that has little to do with ship building but more to do with loudspeaker assembly :)
Ron
 
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didit

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#14
what I am using on the Royal James hull planking is just called Super Glue anyhow

I have planking stock around here and I just tried a little test. wood in kits is kiln dried with a moisture of around 6% air dried aged wood has a moisture content from 12 to 18%

the glue grabbed the air dried wood instantly more moisture dah I never thought of that before. So those hard to bend planks your better off using higher moisture content in the wood either wet the surface or a quick steaming of the wood.
 
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