Great Republic 1853, 1/128 Extreme Clipper Barque by Rwiederrich [COMPLETED BUILD]

[Uwek]

I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN YOUR GREAT REPUBLIC PLANS IF YOU HAVE THEM TO PURCHASE.I AM RESTORING A GREAT MODEL OF SHIP. IT MUST BE ABOUT 100 YEARS OLD AND 8 FEET LONG. THE RIGGING ON IT IS GREAT AND MOSTLY INTACT. PLEASE RESPOND GEORGE

I hope Rob alias @rwiederrich will respond asap.....
Your project sounds very interesting, so maybe you should say (and show) something more.

BTW: A warm welcome here on board of our forum

 

[rwiederrich]

Yes..George I still have the plans of the Great Republic......
Are you interested in them?

Do you have any pics of this 100 year old 8ft model of Great Republic?

Rob

 

[george hartford]

If it's okay I will have my brother get in touch with you . The model and many photos are at his home.

 

[Norgale]

I too would love to see some pictures of the eight foot long model. If I ever get to build the model that I want, it will be about that long.

 

[rwiederrich]

If it's okay I will have my brother get in touch with you . The model and many photos are at his home.

Great. I'm interested to see if the builder, built her with Forbes topsails and doublings. She actually had a modified Forbes rig and was later converted to a Howes rig after her rebuild. I'll look forward to speaking to your brother soon.

Rob

 

[Norgale]

I thought it would be interesting to share some of my observations and point out some inconsistencies so the readers can have a greater respect for the complexity needed when researching and evaluating that research.

First lets look at the contemporary drawings made(probably by Duncan Mcann and referenced by many, such as Crothers.
Here is an example of several interesting inconsistancies….we know the GR sported a modified Forbes double topsail rig as represented here. the mast and topmast doublings are extremely long....outlined by Forbes. to were he slung the lower topsail..and so it could run up and down the outer topmast doubling.
inconsistency #1, by measuring the height of the mast(In scale) it is determined the main yard is not long enough....thus creating a sequential step error in subsequent sail dimensions.
Inconsistency #2, this drawing depicts her with a bulwark, NOT a flush spar deck with her turned post railing. She did not have Forbes rigging when sporting bulwarks...she had Howes topsail rig.
Inconsistency #3, eyewitness accounts say she had no higher sails then Royals....which causes me to question this drawing because of the other blatant issues to include the extra long Royal masts.
View attachment 91634

Hi Rob. Just looking back on your pictures and was wondering if this pic of the masts and rigging could be to scale? Drawings such as this huge subject matter are usually drawn to 1/8the scale but there's no telling how many times this picture has been enlarged or diminished. I'm starting to work on my masts and am looking for the doubling dimension. Looks really long here. Maybe two quarters on the mast. Pete.

 

[Norgale]

I,m sorry for appearing to be *Hysterical* about her sail plan...but it has taken me many years to deduct...and in the end it is only my opinion and most really don't care. But I have to defend my position when asked why I didn't set skysails or six sails per mast...that everyone seams to know her with.
The real troubles comes with there is just not enough evidence..since she burned on her maiden evening....before she even got to prove anything.
This lithographic carving that was color enhanced depicts her as she arrived in New York and was etched by a reputable reported that was printed in the local paper from what I gather. Here she does sport a single skysail on the main mast...Forbes rig is present.

I have much more info on other folks build and restorations of models of the GReat Republic.

Most importantly..is that she doesn't fall into bolivian and is forgotten entirely........
She was magnificent in no matter what rig she is depicted.

Have you settled on the scale for your own version? 1/4=1ft is pretty significant.

RobView attachment 91815

I finally ordered the "Masting" book and received it a few days ago. (Crothers) It does state that the GR came with the Forbes rig from the build yard. The picture here shows six yards on the main and five on each of the mizzen and fore masts along with plenty of pole for the flags. Does that signify anything?

 

[rwiederrich]

I finally ordered the "Masting" book and received it a few days ago. (Crothers) It does state that the GR came with the Forbes rig from the build yard. The picture here shows six yards on the main and five on each of the mizzen and fore masts along with plenty of pole for the flags. Does that signify anything?

Forbes denies that his rig was fully incorporated into the GR sail plan. However, a modified version, more similar to that of the newer design from Howes was utilized. The doublings at the tops still utilized a movable parrel...and there was no *fixed* lower topsail using a crane from the top cap. It is suggested by images and paintings, that the Forbes design was originally intended, but was modified after the main masts had already been fabricated. Review my adaptation in this log to see what I mean. Duncan McClean's description says that, at the time of her docking in NY...she had no sails higher than royals.

Rob

 

[Norgale]

Thinking about her arrival in NY, I wonder if she would use the skysails while on such a short trip and being towed too. She really wouldn't need full sails for that. Since I am modeling her original design and that lasted such a short time, I'll probably go with the Forbes rig and the skysails as shown in several paintings. There is so much uncertainty in how she was rigged in the beginning, it hardly seems likely that we will ever know just what took place. I've been studying your build on the GR and every time I look at it I find something new and unusual. Like how have you decided on the decorations on the outside walls of the deck cabins? I see no pictures or any description at all about this. It gets more interesting every day. Pete

 

[rwiederrich]

Thinking about her arrival in NY, I wonder if she would use the skysails while on such a short trip and being towed too. She really wouldn't need full sails for that. Since I am modeling her original design and that lasted such a short time, I'll probably go with the Forbes rig and the skysails as shown in several paintings. There is so much uncertainty in how she was rigged in the beginning, it hardly seems likely that we will ever know just what took place. I've been studying your build on the GR and every time I look at it I find something new and unusual. Like how have you decided on the decorations on the outside walls of the deck cabins? I see no pictures or any description at all about this. It gets more interesting every day. Pete

One thing about the sail plan. when you see a painting that shows her with bulwarks and skysails...that is depicting her AFTER her rebuild. If she came down from Boston to NY and she only had Royals...THAT is the way she was originally sparred. She never set moonsail yards prior...even if she had them stowed on board. Imagining her with set skysails prior to her fiery destruction is just that....imagination. So...the only configuration that is described by first hand recollection...prior to her burning, would accurately be her ORIGINAL build.
Even though she was rerigged with 6 sails per mast...(Mainsail, lower topsail, upper topsail, topgallant, royal, sky, ) she was still significantly reduced (In yardage) from what she originally carried. Her main yards were 120ft long, compared to 90ft of her rebuild. that is significant.
One final note: When originally built she had, a main, topsail, topgallant, royal and skysail. 5 sails in all, on all masts....cept spanker. On her rebuild, she had, a main, lower topsail, upper topsail, topgallant, royal, skysail. 6 sails in all, on all masts....cept the spanker. Again, as originally built she had Forbes topsail design...which had no upper topsail as did the newer Howes design.....she was later rigged as.
The paneling on the deck houses was applied by taking paneling ideas from images of Glory of the Seas. McKay's last clipper. McKay was known for his woodwork detail on and in his cabins. It is not a stretch to imply such paneling detail was employed on his greatest achievement. Plus, Campbell's own drawings of American clippers....shows that it was the habit of American builders to use ornate paneling to decorate their clipper cabins.

Rob

 

[Norgale]

Thank you Norgate for your fine compliments and reading suggestion.
Crothers fine book is in my library, along with his works on The Masting of American Merchant sailing ships of the 1850's. I possess an exhaustive library on the subject of the Great Republic (and clippers in general)...to include the home workshop series, the Great Republic published in the Popular Science Monthly of 1935.
I also have the complete construction plans based on the works of E Armitage McCann..

However, some discrepancies due exist with these plans..namely...McCann depicts his version with Forbes Rig, with the doublings of the tops with the top mast aft of the main mast. Though Forbes himself claimed his rig was used on the GR..it was modified to place the top mast forward of the main mast doubling.
Second glaring error is, many assume the GR was rigged with sky sails set on all masts... this is true after her rebuild after her fiery destruction, but she was originally rigged with nothing higher then royals on all masts.

In my build....I have attempted to depict her as Donald McKay originally built her. Many contemporary paintings show her with all manner of errors...such as Forbes rig with skysails set and her sporting bulwarks. She received Howes rigging after the fire and the weatherdeck was destroyed in the fire...so Palmer reduced her to a 3 decker, creating the bulwarks. Some paintings show her with Howes rig, skysails and with her original weather deck railing. Even Crothers shows her in drawings with skysails, with a modified Forbes rig and railings around her weather deck.

Research, research, research.......

First hand accounts describe her with only royals as the highest sail set on the mast. Forbes himself declared she was rigged with a modified version of his design, and historical lithographs depict her in this fashion.

I believe the painting I provided of her is the most accurate depiction of her....and is the depiction of her I,m attempting to model.

Sorry for the lengthy blovinating....of the subject, but I Love Donald McKay clippers and researching them is as much a passion of mine as is building scratch scale models of them.

Again...thanks for your fine comments and encouraging suggestion. I hope we can converse on the subject further if you have a mind too.

Rob

Your avatar shows your interest in Donald McKay. Very good likeness and you probably know more of his ships than he did. Norgale