HMS Ontario 1780 Cross Section scale 1:32

Uwek

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Hi Dave,
Did you follow the General Info and Proposals for Future Group Builds? It is a very interesting and informative posting of the expectations and requirements of a successful group build.

The framing used on the current prototype does not represent the English standards of the time period, so I have started over with a new prototype, using double and single frames. This build will take more time but will be a more accurate and attractive model to display.

I have created a new framing distribution plan and have drawn all the new frames and the keel assembly. It was recently brought to my attention by Zoltan that the opening on the upper deck as shown in the reference drawing, I was using is too large as verified by divers on the wreck. This will require reviewing the upper deck framing. The new prototype will not take as long to build as the first one but there will be a lot more parts with this one.

This is the drawings for the keel, upper deck framing, single and double frames, they will be more interesting to build.
Mike

View attachment 106306View attachment 106319View attachment 106308View attachment 106309
This is looking very good and highly interesting - great work
 

AnobiumPunctatum

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Hi Mike,

I don't know much about American Shipbuilding, but you're talking about English frame design. If the shipbuilder followed the English methods, the joint of the keel is wrong. You have to change it by 90 degrees. What you show is French design.
 

Uwek

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Hi Mike,

I don't know much about American Shipbuilding, but you're talking about English frame design. If the shipbuilder followed the English methods, the joint of the keel is wrong. You have to change it by 90 degrees. What you show is French design.
You are correct - the shown joint looks interesting, but it is not typical english way. usually you see only a vertical line on the side of the keel, like we had it in the cross section design.
oxfordhb-9780199336005-graphic213b-full.gif

And the joint is looking too long - I guess, and have to check in the books, there was a definition of the length at the ratio of x to the height of the keel....
 

Mike41

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Thanks Christian and Uwe,
I checked the book English Man of War by Goodwin and changed the orientation and length of the joint. The joint length was typically three time the height of the keel. I am using a plain scarph because it will look the same as a hooked scarph on the finished model.
Mike
 

DocBlake

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Here's detail of HMS Bellona"s keel construction at the scarf. Clearly the keel scarf is vertical, bolted through the sides, and the false keel scarf is horizontal.keel3.jpg
 

Mike41

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Thanks Dave,
I replaced the original drawing with a corrected one. The original one had a horizontal scarph. I used the same illustration from Goodwin’s book.
Mike
 

AnobiumPunctatum

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Mike,

if you are working on the keel details, you can also split the "model-keel" in false keel, keel and rising wood. The false keel has another joint as the keel. For the rising wood the joint isn't really visible, so don't use any joint. I also would simplify the joint at the keel. Make it rectangular, this is later not visible. I will search this evening a drawing of mine, where you can see what I mean.
It's a shame that you did not design the whole ship. I like the design of this small vessel.
 

Mike41

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Hi Uwe, thanks for pointing out the problem with the joint, it is a lot easier to change the drawing than rebuilding the keel.
Mike
 

Mike41

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Hi Christian,
Any information on the keel assembly would be much appreciated.
Zoltan started his model of the Ontario in 2017 and about a year later ask me if I would help him with a cross section to go along with his model. The first prototype was based on John McKay’s drawings in the book Legend of the Lake the 22-Gun Brig-Sloop Ontario 1780.
This prototype is based on the original drawing and the book English Man of War by Goodwin. I hope it will be an accurate representation of the ship.
Mike
 

AnobiumPunctatum

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Hi Mike,

here is my solution for the Swan Class Sloop HMS Fly, 1776

The part of the keel drwaing shows the different parts of the construction.

Fly-134.jpg

The two picture show the assembly in wood. It is not really necessary to build the rising wood this way. I liked to test, if it is possible and if I can do this. It makes also the adjusment of the frames easier. HMS Fly has only single frames.

fly-117.jpg fly-118.jpg

I hope this helps. The rabbet of the isn't cut.
 
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