HMS Surprise by Mamoli - Build log

LordKarstark

LordKarstark

Joined
Nov 26, 2024
Messages
12
Points
58

Location
Nevele - Belgium
So a small recap from my introduction post.
I got a Mamoli HMS Surprise as an early birthday gift and couldn't wait to start work on it.

My only other experience with wooden model ships so far has been a OCCRE Polaris so i feel this is quite a step up from that.

My biggest shock was for sure the massive difference in manuals between the Polaris and surprise. The instructions seem like some bad ai translation from the original (Italian?) instructions.
Luckily i have TKAM's excellent thread on this ship here on the forum for assistance :)
It also seems that some wooden pieces have changed since TKAM started his ship 4 years ago and i feel some of the texts haven't been updated to reflect that.


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For instance, on the drawings the darker and lighter wood of the keel seems to be one part and nowhere on the instructions is mentioned assembling these.
So i just started off with that.

The ribs fit pretty good from the start, just some small clearancing to be done

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I glued in the lower deck and starting doing some planking. Because most of this will be completely invisible I didn't spend to much on it.

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I did a little experiment with some of the occre wood dye's to see what the effect would be on the planking

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I didn't mind it so decided to use it for the other planking


So here is probably where i made my first mistake. I glued in the upper deck and after misinterpreting the instructions i proceeded to also plank it.
Turns out i should have waited with that until after i completed most of the hull planking.
After reading some of the threads here it would also have made installing the guns a lot easier.

Oh well, win some, lose some :)

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For the top deck planking i tried my hand at actually cutting the individual planks to length (instead of the pencil marking method used on the polaris) and i'm quite happy with the results. Also installed the grating and boatstand

Next up, by far the biggest challenge for me. Hull planking
 
Hi Lord,
Have you studied the contemporary plans for her to compare to the kit? There is a pretty complete set in high resolution on the Wiki Commons site as well as a few additional low res on the RMG site.

What brought this up is the opening for the waist area in the photo above which looks different than the actual ship. It may just be the angle of the photo, but it looks strange with super wide gangboards. I downloaded and scaled to full then added the dimensions at 1:75 scale which I believe is the scale Mamoli used.

Allan

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Hey Allan,

First of i have to confess i'm not versed at all in the correct terms in english for sections of ships :)
From the picture you posted i'm going to guess you are talking about the size of the opening in the top deck
I've based myself completely on the plans that were included with the kit

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I'm guessing that when the guardrails and such go up it will look more appropriate :)
 
Hello @LordKarstark. So far good job. As for your questions about canons I doubt Mamoli is going to replace them for you. You can use some mini drills to make the barrel deeper. You can test it on one canon and eventually replace with some aftermarket if it breaks.
@AllanKP69
I would be very sceptical in comparing this kit to ANY real vessel and trials to make such kit a high detail and realistic HMS Surprise are doubtful. It's more likly it's based on some french ship, but I can't name any that is without dobt mamoli wanted to recreate. The kit has some design flows, could be fixed by modelar. You can make a beautiful model out of it, but don't expect 1:1 model of any ship
 
WojtasS said:
Hello @LordKarstark. So far good job. As for your questions about canons I doubt Mamoli is going to replace them for you. You can use some mini drills to make the barrel deeper. You can test it on one canon and eventually replace with some aftermarket if it breaks.
@AllanKP69
I would be very sceptical in comparing this kit to ANY real vessel and trials to make such kit a high detail and realistic HMS Surprise are doubtful. It's more likly it's based on some french ship, but I can't name any that is without dobt mamoli wanted to recreate. The kit has some design flows, could be fixed by modelar. You can make a beautiful model out of it, but don't expect 1:1 model of any ship
Click to expand...
Yes, I would like to agree with this sentiment. I don't know enough about historical ships to attempt to turn this into an actual historical copy.
At this point i'm just trying to complete the kit and getting some more building experience under my belt.

As to the guns mamoli added into the kit, they are really really badly formed, the same with the figurehead. So ill probably source some nicer examples online.
 
Nice to hear you're wiling to fix the kit. Skipping the most obvious mistakes almost every manufacturer makes like wrong pulleys and simplified rigging. The first thing I would change is the aweful sfern and pillars molds.The second one is more conected to constrution of ship itself. This "something" near bow is a designers little abomination and by far ruins 80% of ship's look. I don't know if you want to fix it or leave it, but I'm just highliting it to any other builders.

I hope the pictures will be self explanatory.
The holes for ancre ropes should be moved near the bow and in the yellow area you could place filler block(from balsa wood e.g.) and continue planking.
If you're willing to add some profiles and cheeks at side of a bow- good for you, but the extending planking will be enough to change ship to proper look

On the other photo is general concept how it can/should look and the photos from Paris museum models show how it was done on real ships


If you have some other quetions, I'll answer them gladly. Despite all this La Gloire/HMS is one of my favorites cheap kits - thou I never completed it. The potencial to make a great model is huge. Just not Surprise;)

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La Normande 1814
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La Flore 1806
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WojtasS said:
I would be very sceptical in comparing this kit to ANY real vessel and trials to make such kit a high detail and realistic HMS Surprise are doubtful.
Click to expand...
I agree that most folks will not bother to change anything, but for this ship there is a full set of high resolution drawings that are free. These can be compared to the kit plans to find any misques and then fixed/changed/modified as desired. Glaring mistake like giant belaying pins and incorrect cannon patterns are good examples for some kits.
LordKarstark said:
I'm guessing that when the guardrails and such go up it will look more appropriate
Click to expand...

Based on contemporary models and plans that I have researched there were no guard rails around the opening of the waist. Some examples follow from Preble Hall and RMG. Perhaps the draftsmen and the model makers just left them off, but so far I cannot find any information based on contemporary sources that there were rails of any kind. I would not be surprised if a temporary rope was strung up in rough weather. If anyone has more information on this that would be great. I realize modern versions, such as Victory, have had safety features added in modern times.
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Note the brackets to hold the boat skid beams on which the boats sat.
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I may be wrong but I think they made up what is on the drawing. For example, comparing the original drawing ZAZ3383 at RMG Collections the ladders up to the quarter deck are in the wrong place on the kit drawing. There is also a missing gallows that supports the ships boats on drawing ZAZ3383. There would be spare yards across the gallows and onto the edge of the forecastle and the ship's boats would rest on these, rather than down on the gun deck. The sketch in post #9 does not match up with the gangways on the drawing in your post #4 so even more confusing as to what they were going for. They also show a pillar under what I am guessing is the gangway which did not exist as they were only supported with knees. My apologies if this seems a bit overwhelming.

Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
I may be wrong but I think they made up what is on the drawing. For example, comparing the original drawing ZAZ3383 at RMG Collections the ladders up to the quarter deck are in the wrong place on the kit drawing. There is also a missing gallows that supports the ships boats on drawing ZAZ3383. There would be spare yards across the gallows and onto the edge of the forecastle and the ship's boats would rest on these, rather than down on the gun deck. The sketch in post #9 does not match up with the gangways on the drawing in your post #4 so even more confusing as to what they were going for. They also show a pillar under what I am guessing is the gangway which did not exist as they were only supported with knees. My apologies if this seems a bit overwhelming.

Allan
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You're probably not wrong. There's a disconnect between plans, instructions and the actual kit. Oh well. I'm not going to worry about it to much. It's all a learning experience :)
 
Some more progress on the planking
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I also have a question for the experienced builders here.

The kit calls for installing these pre-assembled gunports and then sort of planking around them.
But i've seen a lot of threads with people simply planking all the way up and then cutting the ports out later.

I would imagine cutting out the ports later would give a smoother effect, but would that impact the rigidity of the planks?

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I think you shouldn't worry about rigidity it's more what way is easier for you to do. On real ship you would have sth like this, so if you add for example 0,5mm veneer or some other wood inside "pre-assembled gunports" to make stops, you could get little more acurate detail. The're little deeper into the hull compared to planking

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I am not sure the first drawing Wojtas posted above will work for POB. There was discussion on the construction of the ports for a POF build when I originally did that drawing and it was not really appropriate for POB. There are posts here at SoS on framing out gun ports for POB that you may find more useful. The framing would look more like the below if you frame before planking. Regardless, the essentials are having sides representing the frames on the sides and the horizontal pieces (lintels and sills). If you are going to use the boxes, it would be easier to add the stops on the bottoms and sides before the boxes are installed. Just remember that the stops are recessed on the outboard side so the port lids were able to close flush with the surrounding planking.
Allan
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So if i was to install the preassembled boxes, sand them even with the first planking. Then apply the 2nd planking, i would have the recess for the lids as you say?
 
The recess is for the stops, not the lintels and faux frames (sides) The planking covers the outside edge of the boxes (faux frames and sills) which are flush with the frames/bulkheads.
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At least your gun ports are wood! Mine are metal cast deformed pieces of crap, and one has two pegs for mounting going in the wrong direction. My HMS Surprise has a lot of bad parts in it. But it will satisfy me when I show it to people who do not know what to look for in detail. When my neighbors see stacks of crab pots and fishing gear hanging off, they might even ask a simple question.
 
LordKarstark said:
Finished up the first planking on the lower hull today. Made some mistakes here and there but on the whole i think its fine for something that will never be seen anyway :)

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Next up is installing the gunports and the planking on the upper hull
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Good morning to the house of Karstark. I’m not sure if your profile is a reference to The Game of Thrones, but I’m a huge fan. Lovely planking on your Surprise. Thanks for sharing. Cheers Grant
 
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