Is the Golden era of POF gone!

[Jimsky]

I joined this website because I like to build model boats. However, my interest is RC sailing boats.
I look at the email update each week and occasionally glean something of value or that is interesting.
However as a new guy, I am usually confused by all of your inside lingo. ie…

POB modelers
POF modelers
and scratch-build modelers.

This website could use a dictionary of all of the terms you use.

Welcome aboard!
I think you make a very good point. We sometimes forget that terminology that's second nature to experienced modelers can confuse newcomers. A glossary or dictionary of commonly used terms would certainly be a useful addition to the website. To clarify the terms you mentioned:

• POB (Plank-on-Bulkhead): A model construction method in which the hull is built over a series of transverse bulkheads attached to a central keel. Planks are then fitted over the bulkheads to form the hull's shape.
• POF (Plank-on-Frame): A construction method in which the hull is built using individual frames, much like the actual vessel's structural framework. The planking is then applied over those frames, or the frames are exposed.
• Scratch-built: This is a different term altogether. It describes a model built from raw materials, rather than assembled primarily from a commercial kit. A scratch-built model can be either POB or POF, depending on its construction method.

So, it wouldn't really be accurate to compare POB and POF modelers with scratch-built modelers. The first two describe how a hull is constructed; the third describes how the model itself is sourced and built.

And don't hesitate to ask whenever you come across unfamiliar terminology. We were all newcomers once, and I'm sure many members would be happy to help.

 

[Signet]

It seems like a small slice of people who are purist enough to prefer a PoF kit but not purist enough to do scratch building. I understand it matters aesthetically in an admiralty style model, but where it does not matter aesthetically to the completed model, I wonder if a meaningful slice of hobbyists cares about PoF vs PoB.

Speaking as one of that small slice of people, after building one PoF kit, I will never build another ship model that is not PoF. Maybe that's because I'm a retired engineer, but the appearance and depth of an admiralty-style or other PoF model is what appeals to me. I, and many others I have seen here, build structural details into a model, that will never be seen when done, but because they're part of the structure and we are, after all, modeling the ship.

Why don't I scratch build them instead? For many reasons: I don't have the tools and space to produce strips and sheets of my preferred woods, nor a reasonable means of cutting out each frame. I don't have a laser cutter to produce tiny pieces to exacting size, nor the ability or time to make them from a block of wood. I'm not certain the cost would be less than the kit, at least if the wood is purchased in sheet and strip form, rather than made from a log. There is plenty of time to be spent building a good kit, so I don't need to scratch build one.

As to cost, is spending $1,000 for a quality PoF kit so bad when you consider that probably over 1,000 hours, maybe two or three times that, will be spent on it. I think all of us are in model building for the process of building, not to have a display piece when done. So how many hobbies do you know of that you spend $1 an hour or so on?

 

[AllanKP69]

Further to Jimsky's great explanation Plank on Frame and Plank on Bulkhead is the style. They can be a kit build or a scratch build.

Scratch IN GENTERAL, is using raw materials including wood and metal and making all the parts yourself. Most, not all, are built from plans, modern, or contemporary, contracts to the private shipyards if available, and reference books based on contemporary sources.

POB build example from a kit



POB from scratch example


Plank on frame kit
HMS Enterprise (28) 1774


Plank on frame scratch built starting with contemporary plans

 

[Roger Pellett]

Somehow, I recently began getting E mail posts from Facebook Marketplace. I enjoy window shopping so it’s fun to page through them. I’m constantly amazed by the power tools being offered for sale. Maybe as my generation passes into oblivion younger generations are dismantling grandpa’s shop.

This should be a great opportunity for those wanting to scratch build, mill their own wood etc. to outfit a shop.

Typical prices here for local pickup (NE Minnesota):

Drill presses $50-100
Jointer 0 100
Table saws 150
Scroll saws $50-150

While the tools don’t have the electronic gadgetry demanded by some, the were new when machined cast iron rather than plastic was state of the art.

Roger

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Speaking as one of that small slice of people, after building one PoF kit, I will never build another ship model that is not PoF. Maybe that's because I'm a retired engineer, but the appearance and depth of an admiralty-style or other PoF model is what appeals to me. I, and many others I have seen here, build structural details into a model, that will never be seen when done, but because they're part of the structure and we are, after all, modeling the ship.

Why don't I scratch build them instead? For many reasons: I don't have the tools and space to produce strips and sheets of my preferred woods, nor a reasonable means of cutting out each frame. I don't have a laser cutter to produce tiny pieces to exacting size, nor the ability or time to make them from a block of wood. I'm not certain the cost would be less than the kit, at least if the wood is purchased in sheet and strip form, rather than made from a log. There is plenty of time to be spent building a good kit, so I don't need to scratch build one.

As to cost, is spending $1,000 for a quality PoF kit so bad when you consider that probably over 1,000 hours, maybe two or three times that, will be spent on it. I think all of us are in model building for the process of building, not to have a display piece when done. So how many hobbies do you know of that you spend $1 an hour or so on?

this is exactly what we are doing in the school creating semi-kits with all the heavy milling done so you can jump right into the build.

Gracie , Hannah, Rattlesnake and Sir Edward Hawke are plank on frame projects coming up is the Hancock and the Royal George built on Lake Ontario 1814.

 

[Thomas]

I'm have been following SOS for years now... reading and watching all the wonderful builds in progress. However, I have been noticing that we are seing far less new kits being released the last few years.

kits are expensive to develop and market so kit makers stick to what sells and not take a risk

Is POF style of building (via kits) slowing dying off and potentially only accessible to the Scratch-builders in the future?

dying off? it is the opposite it is coming back strong go to the school for model shipwrights and the projects being done there. 119,000 views at the school and growing is a sigh of NOT dying off but a renaissance in ship modeling.

School For Shipmodel Building

It seen that the drive for POF kits, mostly from China Developers, is dying off, while overall pricing has gone significantly up

this is true because it is a full "kit" and those are expensive to produce there are alternatives

Exactly right--this is why Hollywood makes the same movies over and over and music sounds the same.

 

[RJW]

Welcome aboard!
I think you make a very good point. We sometimes forget that terminology that's second nature to experienced modelers can confuse newcomers. A glossary or dictionary of commonly used terms would certainly be a useful addition to the website. To clarify the terms you mentioned:

• POB (Plank-on-Bulkhead): A model construction method in which the hull is built over a series of transverse bulkheads attached to a central keel. Planks are then fitted over the bulkheads to form the hull's shape.
• POF (Plank-on-Frame): A construction method in which the hull is built using individual frames, much like the actual vessel's structural framework. The planking is then applied over those frames, or the frames are exposed.
• Scratch-built: This is a different term altogether. It describes a model built from raw materials, rather than assembled primarily from a commercial kit. A scratch-built model can be either POB or POF, depending on its construction method.

So, it wouldn't really be accurate to compare POB and POF modelers with scratch-built modelers. The first two describe how a hull is constructed; the third describes how the model itself is sourced and built.

And don't hesitate to ask whenever you come across unfamiliar terminology. We were all newcomers once, and I'm sure many members would be happy to help.

Thank you

 

[JIMBO1912]

I think all Model Making , whether POF or POB or Plastic Modelling or Model Railways is dying as there is no interest in the Younger generation to fill the ranks .. I think you can see this across the board , as the Suppliers have to increase their prices in in a rapidly diminishing cohort of potential modellers/buyers ... I honestly don,t know of anyone under the age of 20 who has actually built any kind of model .. In their world they,don't have the time to spend 20 hours on a Plastic kit or 500 hours on a Beagle ... In all honestly , they also don,t have the money