Rigging and Block Measurements by Jenson, Lankford and Chapelle

[Peter Voogt]

As mentioned in my build log of the BN, I was looking for the dimensions for the stays and lifts.
Not necessarily for the 'adsolute values' but for the dimensions in relation to each other.
L.B. Jenson has made an overview in The Saga on page 20 "Standing and Running Rigging Schedule & Block List".
Because I had put different values in an excel file, I processed the whole list right away. And will share it here.

I needed a magnifying glass to read the fine print. My Admiral couldn't resist taking a picture:


In the attached excel list I have included 3 tabs:
-Standing Rigging
-Running Rigging
-Blocklist

Explanation of the structure:
Standing Rigging tab:

In the columns:
A/B: Amount+Name of the line
C: (length) and I (diameter) the values stated by Jenson in Feet and Inch, O = explanation
D and J: Converted to 1:1 in meters
E+F and K+L: Converted to 1:64 inch+cm/mm
G+H and M+N: Converted to 1:72 inch+cm/mm

Because the length is not interesting, a follow-up with the diameters:
Comparison between Jenson and Lankford:

Q+U: taken from columns K (1:64 inch)+M (1:72 inch)
R: Lankford values in 1:64 inch
S+T: Converted to 1:64 Mm
V: Converted to 1:72 inch
W+X: Converted to 1:72mm

Running Rigging tab: (Jenson only for now)

Similar columns to Standing rigging

Blocks tab: (Jenson only for now)

A/B: Name of the block
C: specification
D: amount of blocks
E: type of block
F: The value reported by Jenson
G: Converted to 1:1 cm
H+I: Converted to 1:64 inch+mm
J+K: Converted to 1:72 inch+mm
L: further specification of the block type

As soon as I have time+energy again, I will add the Lankford values to 'Running Rigging' and 'Block List'.
The now attached excel list has version number V1-01. If there is an addition, the new file will receive a new version number.
Let me know in a PM Conversation if you find a mistake. Entering quite a lot. A typing error can be made quickly.
And perhaps later the measurements of the masts, booms, gaffs etc.

Februari 20th 2023, 11:13:
Updated the list with version V1-04-03.
There was an error in the formula on the 'Mast-Boom-Gaff' tab, column H.
PS: See also post #13
Regards, Peter

 

[Jimsky]

Many many thanks, Peter for your work and for sharing with us. It is very valuable and educational (two in one)!

 

[Peter Voogt]

Many many thanks, Peter for your work and for sharing with us. It is very valuable and educational (two in one)!

Thanks, Jim. And it’s fun working with Excel. Ones you have 1 column filled with data, the fun start with the formulas in the added new columns.
Regards, Peter

 

[RDN1954]

As mentioned in my build log of the BN, I was looking for the dimensions for the stays and lifts.
Not necessarily for the 'adsolute values' but for the dimensions in relation to each other.
L.B. Jenson has made an overview in The Saga on page 20 "Standing and Running Rigging Schedule & Block List".
Because I had put different values in an excel file, I processed the whole list right away. And will share it here.

I needed a magnifying glass to read the fine print. My Admiral couldn't resist taking a picture:
View attachment 342765

In the attached excel list I have included 3 tabs:
-Standing Rigging
-Running Rigging
-Blocklist

Explanation of the structure:
Standing Rigging tab:
View attachment 342771
In the columns:
A/B: Amount+Name of the line
C: (length) and I (diameter) the values stated by Jenson in Feet and Inch, O = explanation
D and J: Converted to 1:1 in meters
E+F and K+L: Converted to 1:64 inch+cm/mm
G+H and M+N: Converted to 1:72 inch+cm/mm

Because the length is not interesting, a follow-up with the diameters:
Comparison between Jenson and Lankford:
View attachment 342768
Q+U: taken from columns K (1:64 inch)+M (1:72 inch)
R: Lankford values in 1:64 inch
S+T: Converted to 1:64 Mm
V: Converted to 1:72 inch
W+X: Converted to 1:72mm

Running Rigging tab: (Jenson only for now)
View attachment 342769
Similar columns to Standing rigging

Blocks tab: (Jenson only for now)
View attachment 342770
A/B: Name of the block
C: specification
D: amount of blocks
E: type of block
F: The value reported by Jenson
G: Converted to 1:1 cm
H+I: Converted to 1:64 inch+mm
J+K: Converted to 1:72 inch+mm
L: further specification of the block type

As soon as I have time+energy again, I will add the Lankford values to 'Running Rigging' and 'Block List'.
The now attached excel list has version number V1-01. If there is an addition, the new file will receive a new version number.
Let me know in a PM Conversation if you find a mistake. Entering quite a lot. A typing error can be made quickly.
And perhaps later the measurements of the masts, booms, gaffs etc.
Regards, Peter

That's a lot of work! Must have been a rainy Sunday...
What freaks me out a little bit are the huge differences in rope diameters between Jenson and Lankford; they are too large to be neglected. At the same time, I don't have a rational explanation for these differences.
I most definitely will have a look at your spreadsheet.

 

[Peter Voogt]

That's a lot of work! Must have been a rainy Sunday...
What freaks me out a little bit are the huge differences in rope diameters between Jenson and Lankford; they are too large to be neglected. At the same time, I don't have a rational explanation for these differences.
I most definitely will have a look at your spreadsheet.

Thanks, Johan. Remember: Jenson’s Saga is BN-II. Perhaps new safety regulation in the 60’s …….
And the question, what is the source of Lankford.
Continue with searching …….
Regards, Peter

 

[RDN1954]

Thanks, Johan. Remember: Jenson’s Saga is BN-II. Perhaps new safety regulation in the 60’s …….
And the question, what is the source of Lankford.
Continue with searching …….
Regards, Peter

I appreciate the effects updated or implemented safety regulations may have on the standing rigging, but increasing the rope diameters with a factor 3 to 5 just doesn't make sense.
Hopefully your research turns up something useful.

 

[Peter Voogt]

As mentioned in my build-log, there were some big differences between the values of Jenson and Lankford.
For confirmation of 1 of the 2, I started looking in Chapelle. And found a list of the Getrude L. Thebaud. With the comment: "Circumference".
Made a up-date of my excel-sheet with:
-added a tab with the Chapelle's values with extra column for circumference and for diameter with the divided value by pi / 3.14;
-added new 'Chapel' columns in the other tabs.
I have still not all the values from Chapelle, because he uses a lot of different names for a bunch of ropes.

Then I assumed that Jenson may also have used 'circumference' in his rigging values.
All Jenson's values divided by pi and then a lot of values were pretty equal.
In post #1 I have added at the up-date from the excel-file with version V1-02.
Rergards, Peter

 

[RDN1954]

As mentioned in my build-log, there were some big differences between the values of Jenson and Lankford.
For confirmation of 1 of the 2, I started looking in Chapelle. And found a list of the Getrude L. Thebaud. With the comment: "Circumference".
Made a up-date of my excel-sheet with:
-added a tab with the Chapelle's values with extra column for circumference and for diameter with the divided value by pi / 3.14;
-added new 'Chapel' columns in the other tabs.
I have still not all the values from Chapelle, because he uses a lot of different names for a bunch of ropes.

Then I assumed that Jenson may also have used 'circumference' in his rigging values.
All Jenson's values divided by pi and then a lot of values were pretty equal.
In post #1 I have added at the up-date from the excel-file with version V1-02.
Rergards, Peter

As Peter and I discussed this afternoon; why on earth was the circumference of the ropes and wires given and not the diameters? We couldn't find a logical explanation. Anyone?

 

[Peter Voogt]

As Peter and I discussed this afternoon; why on earth was the circumference of the ropes and wires given and not the diameters? We couldn't find a logical explanation. Anyone?

On the Dutch forum a member posted this link. It’s in Dutch, but besides the first picture, the rope is measured in circumference/omtrek:
—> Omtrek <—
Common in earlier years.
Stephan posted me he also has to calculate from circumference to diameter from old books.
Regards, Peter

 

[Alf in Iowa]

As Peter and I discussed this afternoon; why on earth was the circumference of the ropes and wires given and not the diameters? We couldn't find a logical explanation. Anyone?

That exact question has bothered me since sometime in the middle 1960s when I began buying ship modeling books, such as there were at the time and those few that were available in hobby shops and general bookstores. It's not a problem of course converting back and forth, but it always has been an irritant to someone like me whose head is used to thinking in terms of diameters.

 

[Peter Voogt]

That exact question has bothered me since sometime in the middle 1960s when I began buying ship modeling books, such as there were at the time and those few that were available in hobby shops and general bookstores. It's not a problem of course converting back and forth, but it always has been an irritant to someone like me whose head is used to thinking in terms of diameters.

Indeed, Alf. In principle no problem. If you know ...... Luckily Chapelle does!
Regards, Peter

 

[Jeff T]

As mentioned in my build log of the BN, I was looking for the dimensions for the stays and lifts.
Not necessarily for the 'adsolute values' but for the dimensions in relation to each other.
L.B. Jenson has made an overview in The Saga on page 20 "Standing and Running Rigging Schedule & Block List".
Because I had put different values in an excel file, I processed the whole list right away. And will share it here.

I needed a magnifying glass to read the fine print. My Admiral couldn't resist taking a picture:
View attachment 342765

In the attached excel list I have included 3 tabs:
-Standing Rigging
-Running Rigging
-Blocklist

Explanation of the structure:
Standing Rigging tab:
View attachment 342771
In the columns:
A/B: Amount+Name of the line
C: (length) and I (diameter) the values stated by Jenson in Feet and Inch, O = explanation
D and J: Converted to 1:1 in meters
E+F and K+L: Converted to 1:64 inch+cm/mm
G+H and M+N: Converted to 1:72 inch+cm/mm

Because the length is not interesting, a follow-up with the diameters:
Comparison between Jenson and Lankford:
View attachment 342768
Q+U: taken from columns K (1:64 inch)+M (1:72 inch)
R: Lankford values in 1:64 inch
S+T: Converted to 1:64 Mm
V: Converted to 1:72 inch
W+X: Converted to 1:72mm

Running Rigging tab: (Jenson only for now)
View attachment 342769
Similar columns to Standing rigging

Blocks tab: (Jenson only for now)
View attachment 342770
A/B: Name of the block
C: specification
D: amount of blocks
E: type of block
F: The value reported by Jenson
G: Converted to 1:1 cm
H+I: Converted to 1:64 inch+mm
J+K: Converted to 1:72 inch+mm
L: further specification of the block type

As soon as I have time+energy again, I will add the Lankford values to 'Running Rigging' and 'Block List'.
The now attached excel list has version number V1-01. If there is an addition, the new file will receive a new version number.
Let me know in a PM Conversation if you find a mistake. Entering quite a lot. A typing error can be made quickly.
And perhaps later the measurements of the masts, booms, gaffs etc.

November 29th, 16:27:
Updated the list with version V1-02, see post #7.
I think the new the column headings speak for themselves.
Regards, Peter

Thank you for sharing the invaluable information from your research.

 

[Peter Voogt]

In post #1 (look at the end of the post) I have updated the file with a tab "Mast-Boom-Gaff":

In column B the 1:1 mentioned length values from Jenson in the Saga, with yellow fields and bold numbers.
In column E the 1:64 measured length values from the MS/Lankford drawings, with blue fields and bold numbers.
In column J and L the mentioned diameter values from Jenson and Lankford, ditto with color and bolds.
All the other fields with values are calculated out of those yellow and blue fields.

From field B5, the titles are blocked. So you can scroll the columns and rows up and to the left in every position you want, related to the scale you want.
For instance: Diameter Main Top Mast in 1:72


I have also blocked the titles in the other tab's. For the source data I have implemented the field colors as much as possible.
Regards, Peter

 

[ah100m]

Regarding measuring a rope's circumference vs its diameter. As a practical matter, it's a lot easier to measure its circumference (wrap a string around the rope, measure its length) than its diameter (need access to the end of the rope, or cut it?!)

 

[Peter Voogt]

Regarding measuring a rope's circumference vs its diameter. As a practical matter, it's a lot easier to measure its circumference (wrap a string around the rope, measure its length) than its diameter (need access to the end of the rope, or cut it?!)

Thanks for your reply 'ah100m'. At first: Please see my reply not as an offense. I like putting things into perspective.
I think it depends entirely on the reference you're using it for. A through hole for a line or the hole(s) in a block? Then the diameter is so easy. Drills have also diameters.

You can come up with a counter argument to each example:

wrap a string around the rope, measure its length

And if that piece of rope for the string comes from a clock of a few hundred meters ..... a matter of unwinding.
But if you don't know about of don't like to use 'pi', then that string is easy to use.

It's just a fact that people think differently in different periods. It's good that there are now standards like ISO/NEN/etc. Now only one for mile-inch vs km-mtr ..... ...... oooh, we have?
Regards, peter