Metric and imperial diemnsions.

[LuigiSoft]

This is just a passing thought I would like to mention, as we have on this site dimensions given in metric and imperial.

I remember back in my school days and slightly beyond we used pounds, shillings and pence as our national currency in the UK. Weight was in pounds, ounces, stones, etc and length in miles, feet and inches, depth in fathoms, and so on. Mainland Europe was 'far away', and so the continental influence was negligible.
Then came Feb 15th 1971 and it all changed. Decimal currency was hailed in, part of the preparations for joining the common market. Gradually, not overnight as pounds and shillings were used alongside the new currency of pounds and pence. And so we were faced no longer with having to calculate in 12es, 16es, etc. but having to contend with the so much more "difficult" (irony) combinations of 10s. What a relief that was. At last one could calculate using the metric system in ones head! The forms of weights and measures in decimal came in later.
50 years on and the metric system has become imbedded in the UK way of life, although miles are still used as distance on road signs, but liters as an amount when filling up the car.

As I say, just a passing thought. Closing, I believe, and I stand corrected if this should not be the case, that there are only three countries in the world which still use the imperial system of measurement, namely United States, Myanmar and Liberia.

Have a good weekend,
Trevor.

 

[Y.T.]

And in Canada where I am we are forced to use both systems as officially the country is metric but Imperial has to be used because of the Imperial system neighbor - the US. As example our mechanics carry sets of both Metric and Imperial wrenches in their toolbox. All tape measures are both Metric and Imperial.

 

[pugwash]

Of course, the only modern Imperial power is the USA. So it makes sense for them to keep Imperial measures.

 

[LuigiSoft]

So the day America ceases to be an imperial power it will become a decimal power!

 

[Suzdal]

As an amusing aside. The "imperial" unit of an inch has no independent existence. It is officially defined in terms of the metric system as being exactly 2.54 cm.

Richard

Edited on Saturday, 21 August 2021 at 16:48 (GMT + 2) à Paris, France;
sent later.

 

[HankReardon]

This is just a passing thought I would like to mention, as we have on this site dimensions given in metric and imperial.

I remember back in my school days and slightly beyond we used pounds, shillings and pence as our national currency in the UK. Weight was in pounds, ounces, stones, etc and length in miles, feet and inches, depth in fathoms, and so on. Mainland Europe was 'far away', and so the continental influence was negligible.
Then came Feb 15th 1971 and it all changed. Decimal currency was hailed in, part of the preparations for joining the common market. Gradually, not overnight as pounds and shillings were used alongside the new currency of pounds and pence. And so we were faced no longer with having to calculate in 12es, 16es, etc. but having to contend with the so much more "difficult" (irony) combinations of 10s. What a relief that was. At last one could calculate using the metric system in ones head! The forms of weights and measures in decimal came in later.
50 years on and the metric system has become imbedded in the UK way of life, although miles are still used as distance on road signs, but liters as an amount when filling up the car.

As I say, just a passing thought. Closing, I believe, and I stand corrected if this should not be the case, that there are only three countries in the world which still use the imperial system of measurement, namely United States, Myanmar and Liberia.

Have a good weekend,
Trevor.

Trevor,

I am in the process of drafting a Caravel (Santa Maria) for POF construction. The plans that I have were drafted in the metric scale. I struggled for three weeks trying to redraft everything in Imperial only to have the frames come out looking like a can of worms. I enlarged, reduced, scaled, skewed and distorted the plans in Photoshop and nearly consumed two entire bottles of good Scotch in the process (Single Malt, not that blended crap). Still couldn't get things to come out correctly. Then I thought, "I wonder how they would turn out is I just drafted everything metric?" After about the third frame, the clouds parted, a beam of sunshine showed through, and the sounds of heavenly angels softly singing in chorus was heard off in the distance.

Imagine my sheer amazement in discovering that everything was suddenly divisible by 10 and that all I needed to do was move the little "dot" to the left or the right and things scaled perfectly. An entirely new world opened up to me. Perhaps I'm on to something here.

I told my wife about my discoveries with the Metric System, to which she responded, "Duh!" (She's from France and believes the "American System" is just stupid) She asked me if I had fully embraced the metric system. I told her that I had gone through an experimental phase in college just like many others do when searching for themselves or taking Chemistry and Physics, but had given up on it as I believed if G_d had meant man to be on the metric system, there would have been only 12 Apostles. Then there was that summer at Band Camp. After all, the only TRUE way is the American Way and any country that didn't use the Imperial System was not only resisting the steady march of progress but was also demonstrating that they were rude and didn't have the common courtesy to measure things in 128th's and 32nd's the way NORMAL civilizations should.

I have now accepted the fact that I am bi-mensural (Mensural - adjective, of or involving measuring). I am no longer ashamed. I'm not quite ready to come out of the closet as a fully Metric as I fear my circle of family and friends are not quite ready to accept the life I have now chosen. I fear that I will be ostracized by members of the small North Carolina town in which I live. I will keep my new-found metric lifestyle to myself in the hope that at some time in the not too distant future, Metric people can walk proudly down any street in America without fear. I dream that someday we will even have "Metric Pride Day", maybe a parade, and perhaps our own flag (with little tick marks every 10 units across the front, of course). We could even protest against our oppression by loudly chanting, "What do we want? METRIC! When do we want it? NOW!" Maybe even "Down with the Imperialists!"

I've ordered a set of metric rulers and measuring tools from Amazon with specific instructions that they be delivered discretely in unmarked brown paper wrapping. I am excited and look forward to their arrival tomorrow (I'm a Prime Member, so I got free two day delivery going for me too).

If anyone is interested in forming a Bi-mensural Support Group, with possibly a 12-step program, please don't hesitate to drop me a line. Together let's rise up and fight the Imperialists who have persecuted we fun-loving, Scotch-drinking (Single Malt only), Metrics for far too long. Our victory is only a few inches centimeters away...

Literly Yours,

Hank Reardon
P.S I was being sincere when I told my friends their baby looks like a movie star...I just failed to mention that the kid looks like E.T.

 

[pugwash]

Luigi, by then it will be a sad reminder of what once was.

Richard, we all know if someone has an inch then it's as good as a yard!

As far as I can find, the Romans gave us the inch or 'uncia', one twelfth of a Roman foot.
I suppose that's where the 'Imperial' comes from.

The French just made-up the decimal system (and did a good job of it).
The real credit must go to the Chinese!

 

[pugwash]

Americans worship money above all else.
Sensibly they made the $ metric! So they've always been bi-mensural.

 

[LuigiSoft]

As an amusing aside. The "imperial" unit of an inch has no independent existence. It is officially defined in terms of the metric system as being exactly 2.54 cm.

Richard

Edited on Saturday, 21 August 2021 at 16:48 (GMT + 2) à Paris, France;
sent later.

I believe the inch was used back in time as the distance from the tip of the thumb to its first joint. Thumb in Italian is pollici, derived from the latin pollicis. Pollici the same word also used for inch in Italian. Hope I'm right!

 

[Coastie722]

As a former auto mechanic of British and American vintage autos. I still have a few drawers in by tool box of SAE (imperial), Whitworth and British Standard sockets and wrenches. I still use them every now and then.

 

[pugwash]

Inch Googled....

'The unit derives from the Old English ince, or ynce, which in turn came from the Latin unit uncia, which was “one-twelfth” of a Roman foot, or pes. ... (The Latin word uncia was the source of the name of another English unit, the ounce.)'

I have old British bikes for which I have dedicated Whitworth and BA spanners.
There was a period in the mid 60's when the same machine could need at least 3 different sets of spanners.

 

[Railcardownunder]

Even worse some of the USA kits I build use decimal part of an inch and fractions in the same line. Some even introduced scale inches (1/87) in the same paragraph. NO HOPE Maybe metric is just too easy for them

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

As an American, I see the advantages of the metric system. My generation was taught to use both systems equally well, but the metric failed to catch on and become the standard in our society. Such trends are like trying to predict the weather. I modeling, I use metric because it is simple to use in calculations. As an engineer, both are still used, but Imperial is dominant.

 

[Railcardownunder]

Why is the more difficult and in my view less useful imperial system dominant in the USA? Is it big money saying too expensive to change or we know better?

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Why is the more difficult and in my view less useful imperial system dominant in the USA? Is it big money saying too expensive to change or we know better?

Many of the units are not in base 10, so calculating is more complicated. It does take time and effort to change measuring systems, something most Americans were just not willing to undertake. So the imperial measurements are still used here. All our machinery is still calibrated in Imperial. We aren't making decent long lasting machine tools anymore, so if we ditched our machinery, we'd have to replace it all. German machinery still has a tradition of quality and long life. Unfortunately we have lost that, trading it for lesser cost plus planned obsolescence. All of my machine tools are from the 1940's through 1960's. Nothing modern, because they are still in use and made well, despite not having computer controls. Even with the expense of changing, the societal trend is really what drove the move to retain the Imperial system. Call it complacency.

 

[LuigiSoft]

Why is the more difficult and in my view less useful imperial system dominant in the USA? Is it big money saying too expensive to change or we know better?

I suppose a bit of both. It is not easy to change something that is ingrained into everyday life. I experience this even now when talking to my sister in Scotland. She continues to speak in the imperial language, in the measurement sense of the word that is.

One example of a hybrid system is the diemensioning of tyres. Take a tyre size of say 235/75 R16. The first two numbers denote the width of the tyre in millimeters. The last two numbers reperesent the width of the wheel in inches, 7.5 in this case.

I found the following link on the internet, which demonstrates what can go wrong, in this instance during international collaboration on space technology, when different systems of measurement are employed:

The Time NASA Lost a Mars Orbiter Because of a Metric System Mixup

Using the metric system onboard a spacecraft and imperial on the ground can have disastrous consequences.

www.vice.com

So, in a nutshell it makes sense to have one system of measurements only.

 

[Philski]

Its all easy today with a decent calculator. Lengths is length, regardless of the measurment system. But don't mix the two. Stick with one or the other.as an engineer myself, I worked in metrology and everything was very precise.

 

[jimmystratos]

One example of a hybrid system is the diemensioning of tyres. Take a tyre size of say 235/75 R16. The first two numbers denote the width of the tyre in millimeters. The last two numbers reperesent the width of the wheel in inches, 7.5 in this case.


So, in a nutshell it makes sense to have one system of measurements only.

Not quite right; 235 is the width of the tyre, 75 is the %age aspect ratio of the tyre, in this case 75% of 235 = 176mm and the third figure is the diameter of the wheel. Hence the diameter of the tyre is 2 x 176mm + 16inches, which is , err, err, something!

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I suppose a bit of both. It is not easy to change something that is ingrained into everyday life. I experience this even now when talking to my sister in Scotland. She continues to speak in the imperial language, in the measurement sense of the word that is.

One example of a hybrid system is the diemensioning of tyres. Take a tyre size of say 235/75 R16. The first two numbers denote the width of the tyre in millimeters. The last two numbers reperesent the width of the wheel in inches, 7.5 in this case.

I found the following link on the internet, which demonstrates what can go wrong, in this instance during international collaboration on space technology, when different systems of measurement are employed:

The Time NASA Lost a Mars Orbiter Because of a Metric System Mixup

Using the metric system onboard a spacecraft and imperial on the ground can have disastrous consequences.

www.vice.com

So, in a nutshell it makes sense to have one system of measurements only.

I agree. I think we should go metric to make standards easier to work with. I deal with ancient measurements when building siege engines. 1 digitus = 0.76", 1 Attic mina = 0.96 lbs, etc. It can be a real pain working in the shop using ancient Greek and Roman units. Lots of conversions.

 

[frankieg]

Not quite right; 235 is the width of the tyre, 75 is the %age aspect ratio of the tyre, in this case 75% of 235 = 176mm and the third figure is the diameter of the wheel. Hence the diameter of the tyre is 2 x 176mm + 16inches, which is , err, err, something!

Hmmm, I was under the impression the 75 indicated the "profile " of the tyre, from outside edge of wheel rim to outside tyre edge. Anywho, it's a great fun topic.