Curious, how much did you spend on your first ship, mail order or local, how long was your first build, see a lot of ships on ebay from China, thoughts on Chinese quality, differences between $100 ship and $500 ship, is it quality or number of parts, any other memories from your first purchase and build, thanks.
With regards to your question on Chinese kits, I personally reckon they are (in most cases ) vastly superior to kits from Europe.
With the exception of Caldercraft.
With the exception of Caldercraft.
I agree with Brian, but you are probably going to get a wide range of responses. If it is china kits you are interested in, (and @zoly99sask, and others) is also someone to ask. . . it is better to order straight from ZHL, CAF, Trident and others.
eBay always makes me cringe as I have seen many modelers get kits that the seller robbed the manual and other very important parts out of and then sold it. I have seen it first hand here on SOS where someone bought from eBay and they would up with asking for help for manuals, plans, instructions. The manufacture NEVER has the plans online and even rarely the manual.
I am not trying to be crass about it, but this hobby is not like buying a printer and then going to like HP support and downloading the manual and drivers. It does not work this way.
so, ok, I will answer your question. My first (completed) wooden ship was the Colonial Schooner Sultana from Model Expo which is a Model Shipways Brand (www.modelexpo-online.com) and if I remember I paid around $69 for it. It is relatively easy as it is a solid hull. My next kit was from OcCre (www.occre.com) and it was the Santisima Trinidad and I bought it from hobbyinc and I think it was around $800. ( I might be wrong about the hobbyinc as I cannot remember). The last kit that I built was the San Felipe and I bought it from Cornwall Model Boats ( https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/ ). It was about $800 as well. None of these were bought from eBay.
ZHL China Kits is at https://www.zhlmodel.com/
CAF Model is at https://cafmodel.com/
European kits are now pale in comparison to the two China manufacturers that I mention. I am not sure if I will ever buy a Euro kit again. I strongly advise again the Panart San Felipe. I might buy from OcCre again.
Model Expo online is also a safe bet too to buy from. There is nothing wrong with their products (that is the Model Shipways Brand) is what I am referring to.
eBay always makes me cringe as I have seen many modelers get kits that the seller robbed the manual and other very important parts out of and then sold it. I have seen it first hand here on SOS where someone bought from eBay and they would up with asking for help for manuals, plans, instructions. The manufacture NEVER has the plans online and even rarely the manual.
I am not trying to be crass about it, but this hobby is not like buying a printer and then going to like HP support and downloading the manual and drivers. It does not work this way.
so, ok, I will answer your question. My first (completed) wooden ship was the Colonial Schooner Sultana from Model Expo which is a Model Shipways Brand (www.modelexpo-online.com) and if I remember I paid around $69 for it. It is relatively easy as it is a solid hull. My next kit was from OcCre (www.occre.com) and it was the Santisima Trinidad and I bought it from hobbyinc and I think it was around $800. ( I might be wrong about the hobbyinc as I cannot remember). The last kit that I built was the San Felipe and I bought it from Cornwall Model Boats ( https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/ ). It was about $800 as well. None of these were bought from eBay.
ZHL China Kits is at https://www.zhlmodel.com/
CAF Model is at https://cafmodel.com/
European kits are now pale in comparison to the two China manufacturers that I mention. I am not sure if I will ever buy a Euro kit again. I strongly advise again the Panart San Felipe. I might buy from OcCre again.
Model Expo online is also a safe bet too to buy from. There is nothing wrong with their products (that is the Model Shipways Brand) is what I am referring to.
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I think I spent about a $100 for my first kit, Mamoli's Black Prince. It was a solid kit, but I felt the need to venture beyond the kit with rigging. I would recommend Mamoli as a kit brand that is beginner friendly, and not absurdly inaccurate.
Are you asking about our first wooden kit or model ship in general? My first wooden model ship was from Artesania Lantina back in about 1987 - the Baltik I think it was. Paid less than $70 for it - if I remember correctly. However, the first ship model I ever got when I was about 11 ( about 1960) The USS Enterprise aircraft carrier. The first sailing ship was a Heller kit, but I don't remember which one - I want to say the Victory, but not sure. As far as costs are concerned I can't remember that far back, but they had to be fairly inexpensive for a kid to afford it from their allowance - at least compared to todays prices.
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I really can not use my first model ship kit as a comparison because it was back around 1963 and it was the Mayflower by Model Shipways. maybe $26.00 I don't remember.
you may want to consider jumping right into scratch building
yes it sounds scary but it takes as much time and skill to build from scratch as it does from a kit.
with scratch you control the materials
one big mistake for beginners is buying that big model and realizing wow! I bit off way more than I can chew the frustration sets in. Who wants a hobby that frustrates?
any kit by any manufacture will give nothing but bare bones instructions. Your best bet is to start a build log and have members here become your instructions.
you may want to consider jumping right into scratch building
yes it sounds scary but it takes as much time and skill to build from scratch as it does from a kit.
with scratch you control the materials
one big mistake for beginners is buying that big model and realizing wow! I bit off way more than I can chew the frustration sets in. Who wants a hobby that frustrates?
any kit by any manufacture will give nothing but bare bones instructions. Your best bet is to start a build log and have members here become your instructions.
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Dave,it takes a lot more time to build from scratch than from a kit,also requires more tools
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Once purchased, the tools can be used over and over again to build hundreds of models! Lots of model shipbuilders like to take a lots of time, so I don't see any problem with scratchbuilding. My first serious model was brigantine Leon, and I built it with reference to the two books Plank of Frame Models Volumes 1 & 2 by Harold A Underhill. Tools: Coping saw, scalpel, dividers, archimedean drill, steel ruler -
Bob
Bob
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I built this using the above tools. Just sawed the frames out of standard plywood, and planked it with 1/16th-inch obeche sheet, sliced up with scalpel and steel ruler. Not a kit. Just got the plans from a book.
Bob
-.
Bob
-.Really asking the difference between kit and scratch
In scratch you have to manufacture everything by yourself also you need very good plan sets,no instructions,in kits depend on the Mfg and how old the kit you lots of things ready to ansamble.
Maybe you should start another way:
Which kind of ship, navy, and time period you are interested in?
Next question to answer is maybe the scale you want to work?
After such definitions it will be also easier for you to decide in which direction you want to go....
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With scratchbuilding, you find your own plans and materials from various sources, usually for a small finacial layout. Then, you build it yourself. A kit is usually quite an expensive item where you get all the plans parts in a box and assemble them, following instructions with a minimum of tools.
If you have plenty spare cash, a kit is probably the easiest option.
If you want to develop your skills over quite a long period of time, and are prepared to work at it, scratchbuilding would be the better and cheaper option.
Most modellers prefer kits, but I have never got any satisfactions from them, and only built one or two in the 1950s.
Bob
If you have plenty spare cash, a kit is probably the easiest option.
If you want to develop your skills over quite a long period of time, and are prepared to work at it, scratchbuilding would be the better and cheaper option.
Most modellers prefer kits, but I have never got any satisfactions from them, and only built one or two in the 1950s.
Bob
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Dave,it takes a lot more time to build from scratch than from a kit, also requires more tools
yes and no to that the actual model building I do is nothing more than hand tools and a Dremel. BUT I milled everything I need so I am starting the build with pre milled wood.
there are sources you can buy pre milled wood like the Brandford build is actually a scratch building project and everything is available including the guns. you can order pre milled materials in anything you choose, your instructions are right here on the forum and all the help you need.
So yes to the above statement you can design a scratch built project to fit your needs.
yes and no to that the actual model building I do is nothing more than hand tools and a Dremel. BUT I milled everything I need so I am starting the build with pre milled wood.
there are sources you can buy pre milled wood like the Brandford build is actually a scratch building project and everything is available including the guns. you can order pre milled materials in anything you choose, your instructions are right here on the forum and all the help you need.
So yes to the above statement you can design a scratch built project to fit your needs.
Bob, scratch building is not for everyone, let's keep it real Bob!
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in scratch you have to manufacture everything by yourself also you need very good plan sets,no instructions,in kits depend on the Mfg and how old the kit you lots of things ready to assemble.
well this might get a little push back but what your saying is a kit is just a "ready to assemble" project by making things yourself and working through the project you are learning how to actually build a model ship and not just assemble some pre made kit.
well this might get a little push back but what your saying is a kit is just a "ready to assemble" project by making things yourself and working through the project you are learning how to actually build a model ship and not just assemble some pre made kit.
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Bob, scratch building is not for everyone, let's keep it real Bob!
very true scratch building is not for everyone nor is kit building so which is REAL?
but lets try to help out glockexe and I agree lets get more back round information. For all we know glockexe may be a professional model builder
very true scratch building is not for everyone nor is kit building so which is REAL?
but lets try to help out glockexe and I agree lets get more back round information. For all we know glockexe may be a professional model builder
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There is very little scratchbuilding going on these days, so it is probably best to get a kit. But I would not go for one costing hundreds of dollars, because if you find you can't do it, you have wasted a lot of money, as it is very hard to sell half-built kits. If you buy tools, and find you don't like scratchbuilding, you can either keep them and use them for something else, or sell them.
You haven't said what sort of ship you want to build yet, so it is difficult for anyone to offer advice at the moment as there are so many different types. This is the above model in its early stages, not up to the standard of an expensive kit, but it cost virtually nothing to build!
Bob
You haven't said what sort of ship you want to build yet, so it is difficult for anyone to offer advice at the moment as there are so many different types. This is the above model in its early stages, not up to the standard of an expensive kit, but it cost virtually nothing to build!
Bob
As mentioned by Zoly the main difference between the kit and the scratch build is the kits manufactures will provide you with all the materials and often time premade parts (mostly decorations, cannons, and others), a full instruction set and possibly plans (drafts). Where if you will build from scratch, you will need to get all the materials on your own and fabricate all the parts.
The Kit:
- provide laser\CNC bulkheads\frame parts
-provide all resawn timber for planking hull and decks
-provide preshape parts, casting decorations and cannon barrels, deadeyes\blocks
-may include ready-made sails or clothe for sails.
-provide dowels for mast\spars and rigging material
-step-by-step instructions (some new modern kit will include 3D diagrams)
-may include plans (drafts), paint and other supplemental materials
* need you own basic modeling tools (fro the most part) and glue
* requires some knowledge working with various materislas
The scratch build:
-obtain\research plans\drafts for your desired model
- obtain (purchase) necessary timber\plywood
- cut out the bulkheads\frames
- resaw your own strips for planking the hull\deck
- fabricate all the parts according to plans
* need tools to be able to resaw timber and fabricate all the parts (table saw, drill press various hand tools... You may purchase resawn timber, if you don;t have tools to make your own.
* requires great knowledge\ability to work with various materials
* MUST understanding and interpreting the drafs\plans
The Kit:
- provide laser\CNC bulkheads\frame parts
-provide all resawn timber for planking hull and decks
-provide preshape parts, casting decorations and cannon barrels, deadeyes\blocks
-may include ready-made sails or clothe for sails.
-provide dowels for mast\spars and rigging material
-step-by-step instructions (some new modern kit will include 3D diagrams)
-may include plans (drafts), paint and other supplemental materials
* need you own basic modeling tools (fro the most part) and glue
* requires some knowledge working with various materislas
The scratch build:
-obtain\research plans\drafts for your desired model
- obtain (purchase) necessary timber\plywood
- cut out the bulkheads\frames
- resaw your own strips for planking the hull\deck
- fabricate all the parts according to plans
* need tools to be able to resaw timber and fabricate all the parts (table saw, drill press various hand tools... You may purchase resawn timber, if you don;t have tools to make your own.
* requires great knowledge\ability to work with various materials
* MUST understanding and interpreting the drafs\plans
Thanks Jim for the detailed explanation