Plank on bulkhead vs POF

Chello

Chello

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My next project will be a POF build ( CAF le Coureur) and I was wondering what would be the major changes to consider after having worked with plank on bulkhead only.
I mean this in relation to the overall approach, tools, glue etc.
The POB model involved few laser cut items and lots of fabrication from the included timbers and of course the double planking. The POF model appears to have many more laser cut items and less loose timber.
I also feel (correct me If I’m wrong) that the variation in scale Of the included items such as cannons carriages and blocks is much larger with the standard POB models than the with the more accurate, more true to the original plans POF ones. Any suggestions welcome so I know I will be as prepared as possible from the onset.


Marcel
 
Hello Marcel. From the deck up, POB and POF models are much the same: furniture, decorations, masts, rigging, etc can be as accurate and detailed as the model builder decides or the kit allows on either type of model. The main difference between the two is in the structure of the models themselves.

Plank-on-Bulkhead models (POB) use a false keel and bulkhead structure designed to capture the shape of the actual ship while reducing the complexity and cost for the model builder. Since the interior of the ship is "false" a POB model must be completely planked and closed in. The advantage is POB models are much easier to build, have fewer parts, and require simpler techniques.

Plank-on-Frame models (POF) attempt to more closely depict the actual ship be recreating the actual keel and rib structure. They typically require the use of a jig for assembly (usually included in the kit), have MANY more parts and require more advanced building techniques in the shaping of curved structures to create the shape of the ship. POF models are typically more expensive than POB and can be daunting to build for less experienced modelers. Since the interior structure of the ship is modeled, POF models can be left partially unplanked revealing this architecture and increasing detail. Many POF models will leave the masts and rigging off to better display the structure of the actual ship (what we call Admiralty Style).

Tools and materials required for both types of models are similar. Neither type is 100% historically accurate and are both somewhat stylized representations of an actual ship although POF are typically closer to the real thing. You can find both POB and POF in various scales and sizes.

Hope this helps.
 
Hmm, well.... POF kits are generally preferred by those who want to stay closer to “reality”. POF is much closer to the way actual ships were built. If you’re interested in exposing some of the interior “guts” of the ship, then POF is the only real solution other than scratch building. POB is easier and more forgiving. The framework is stronger and stiffer laterally while under construction. Fewer places to go wrong.

As far as materials included... that depends on who made the kit. Each manufacturer has their own way. Some are better than others. Some are a LOT better.!! All of the kits I’ve seen have EXTENSIVE amounts of laser cut pieces. Unless you buy a special kit that is CNC cut, all kits will use laser cutting for most of their component parts. The accessory pieces, decorative pieces, etc., are representative of the manufacturer. Some are better than others.

Scale variation..??? Scale is scale. A good kit from a top line manufacturer will stay close to scale with all of their pieces. Generally, the cheaper kits will have a lot more scale variation, especially in the “small parts”. Keep in mind that certain accessory items are so small (in relation to the ship itself..) that they are almost impossible to be made at proper scale. In order to handle them, rig them, etc., and appreciate them, you have to be able to SEE them. So some accommodation from scale must be made.

No appreciable difference in glues or tools, although you will find it necessary to utilize different techniques in clamping, support, bracing, etc.. You will need a different approach and mindset because you will have to think about ordering priorities, order of build, ...what goes where before that goes on top... deck (multiple decks..) framing/support and some planking is in place ( usually..sometimes... almost always..) before hull planking is complete.. etc. It’s all different because of the need to support and control the ship skeleton. NONE of which is an issue with POB because the bulkheads support everything.

In general, they’re different...because they have to be. If you ever plan to do some scratch building, then you will appreciate having some experience with POF kits. Otherwise just choose what you like. Keep in mind POF builds will be more difficult than a POB kit of the same ship, size, and detail.

One last thing. All of this is just my opinion. Others may think differently. And that’s OK.!!!
 
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mrshanks said:
Hello Marcel. From the deck up, POB and POF models are much the same: furniture, decorations, masts, rigging, etc can be as accurate and detailed as the model builder decides or the kit allows on either type of model. The main difference between the two is in the structure of the models themselves.

Plank-on-Bulkhead models (POB) use a false keel and bulkhead structure designed to capture the shape of the actual ship while reducing the complexity and cost for the model builder. Since the interior of the ship is "false" a POB model must be completely planked and closed in. The advantage is POB models are much easier to build, have fewer parts, and require simpler techniques.

Plank-on-Frame models (POF) attempt to more closely depict the actual ship be recreating the actual keel and rib structure. They typically require the use of a jig for assembly (usually included in the kit), have MANY more parts and require more advanced building techniques in the shaping of curved structures to create the shape of the ship. POF models are typically more expensive than POB and can be daunting to build for less experienced modelers. Since the interior structure of the ship is modeled, POF models can be left partially unplanked revealing this architecture and increasing detail. Many POF models will leave the masts and rigging off to better display the structure of the actual ship (what we call Admiralty Style).

Tools and materials required for both types of models are similar. Neither type is 100% historically accurate and are both somewhat stylized representations of an actual ship although POF are typically closer to the real thing. You can find both POB and POF in various scales and sizes.

Hope this helps.
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Thank you that is really helpful.

I totally agree that the POF, but even more so the scratch builds represent building a ship, as POB is more like building a model. Although I found the POB experience truly rewarding and a great way to learn and understand, I am looking forward to the new build and the associated research which now has an extra dimension, the interior of the ship.
 
Hobbit99 said:
Hmm, well.... POF kits are generally preferred by those who want to stay closer to “reality”. POF is much closer to the way actual ships were built. If you’re interested in exposing some of the interior “guts” of the ship, then POF is the only real solution other than scratch building. POB is easier and more forgiving. The framework is stronger and stiffer laterally while under construction. Fewer places to go wrong.

As far as materials included... that depends on who made the kit. Each manufacturer has their own way. Some are better than others. Some are a LOT better.!! All of the kits I’ve seen have EXTENSIVE amounts of laser cut pieces. Unless you buy a special kit that is CNC cut, all kits will use laser cutting for most of their component parts. The accessory pieces, decorative pieces, etc., are representative of the manufacturer. Some are better than others.

Scale variation..??? Scale is scale. A good kit from a top line manufacturer will stay close to scale with all of their pieces. Generally, the cheaper kits will have a lot more scale variation, especially in the “small parts”. Keep in mind that certain accessory items are so small (in relation to the ship itself..) that they are almost impossible to be made at proper scale. In order to handle them, rig them, etc., and appreciate them, you have to be able to SEE them. So some accommodation from scale must be made.

No appreciable difference in glues or tools, although you will find it necessary to utilize different techniques in clamping, support, bracing, etc.. You will need a different approach and mindset because you will have to think about ordering priorities, order of build, ...what goes where before that goes on top... deck (multiple decks..) framing/support and some planking is in place ( usually..sometimes... almost always..) before hull planking is complete.. etc. It’s all different because of the need to support and control the ship skeleton. NONE of which is an issue with POB because the bulkheads support everything.

In general, they’re different...because they have to be. If you ever plan to do some scratch building, then you will appreciate having some experience with POF kits. Otherwise just choose what you like. Keep in mind POF builds will be more difficult than a POB kit of the same ship and detail.

One last thing. All of this is just my opinion. Others may think differently. And that’s OK.!!!
Click to expand...
Hi and thank you for your extensive reply. I agree with your comments about POF/Scratch being truer to the reality of building a ship.
What I really appreciate on this forum the wealth of knowledge which is the combined outcome of all those opinions and perspective. I hope to be able to one day add to those.
 
mrshanks said:
Hello Marcel. From the deck up, POB and POF models are much the same: furniture, decorations, masts, rigging, etc can be as accurate and detailed as the model builder decides or the kit allows on either type of model. The main difference between the two is in the structure of the models themselves.

Plank-on-Bulkhead models (POB) use a false keel and bulkhead structure designed to capture the shape of the actual ship while reducing the complexity and cost for the model builder. Since the interior of the ship is "false" a POB model must be completely planked and closed in. The advantage is POB models are much easier to build, have fewer parts, and require simpler techniques.

Plank-on-Frame models (POF) attempt to more closely depict the actual ship be recreating the actual keel and rib structure. They typically require the use of a jig for assembly (usually included in the kit), have MANY more parts and require more advanced building techniques in the shaping of curved structures to create the shape of the ship. POF models are typically more expensive than POB and can be daunting to build for less experienced modelers. Since the interior structure of the ship is modeled, POF models can be left partially unplanked revealing this architecture and increasing detail. Many POF models will leave the masts and rigging off to better display the structure of the actual ship (what we call Admiralty Style).

Tools and materials required for both types of models are similar. Neither type is 100% historically accurate and are both somewhat stylized representations of an actual ship although POF are typically closer to the real thing. You can find both POB and POF in various scales and sizes.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your clarification which I have now found after days or weeks of wondering. The other term that I had to look up was Woodling, which I found was also a form of torture with rope around persons skull and would tighter with a windlass ". . . until the eyeballs popped out. . " !!!! That is a harsh connection with those on masts but the same basic application of line. PT-2
 
PT-2 said:
Thank you for your clarification which I have now found after days or weeks of wondering. The other term that I had to look up was Woodling, which I found was also a form of torture with rope around persons skull and would tighter with a windlass ". . . until the eyeballs popped out. . " !!!! That is a harsh connection with those on masts but the same basic application of line. PT-2
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I suppose this was way before the human rights act ..;)
 
That’s actually really interesting how they still had some concept of considering someone’s fundamental rights while they happily tortured, decapitated and used creativity to inflict maximum pain and suffering.
 
Chello said:
That’s actually really interesting how they still had some concept of considering someone’s fundamental rights while they happily tortured, decapitated and used creativity to inflict maximum pain and suffering.
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Good to be past that era and in our own where we have much more subtle forms to apply such as in commercials which are all around us so much as we don't recognize them most of the time. PT-2
 
PT-2 said:
Good to be past that era and in our own where we have much more subtle forms to apply such as in commercials which are all around us so much as we don't recognize them most of the time. PT-2
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Absolutely right there!
 
Jim J said:
Mankind has always found a way to inflict the maximum amount of pain on their fellow man - no matter what time in history. It's a shame that all that energy can't be put to better use.
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It’s also that sharp contrast between the might and beauty of historical ships and the unsavoury issues they were involved with, on board and off board. I’m Dutch so I Should know....
 
Jim J said:
Mankind has always found a way to inflict the maximum amount of pain on their fellow man - no matter what time in history. It's a shame that all that energy can't be put to better use.
Click to expand...
Yes, sometimes it is mental rather than physical. PT-2
 
PT-2 said:
Thank you for your clarification which I have now found after days or weeks of wondering. The other term that I had to look up was Woodling, which I found was also a form of torture with rope around persons skull and would tighter with a windlass ". . . until the eyeballs popped out. . " !!!! That is a harsh connection with those on masts but the same basic application of line. PT-2
Click to expand...
Did you ever see the movie Captain Blood with Errol Flynn and Basil Rathbone and Olivia de Haviland? It's a 1930s b&w film in which Flynn is the good guy and Rathbone is the bad guy--a French pirate with an outrageous accent. He threatens to do that woolding thing on an Englishman and he refers to it as "the rosary of pain." The movie is worth seeing if you can find it, but not fully faithful to the books by Rafael Sabatini which have some great pirate and sea stories.
 
AGAIN MY INFLATED 2 CENTS, FOR ME AS I AM NOT A REALLY GOOD MODELER BUT FAIR, FOR SOME REASON I CAN AND DO A POF MUCH BETTER THEN A POB WHY DO NOT KNOW BUT HAVE BEEN DOING POF FOR ABOUT 8 YEARS, STRUGLING WIT THE ARMED LONG BOAT IF I CAN SOLVE THE PLANKING PROBLEM I CAN SALVAGE THE BUILD. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE DON
 
I haven't seen that movie for decades and did not recall the scene and declaration but it is appropriate. Ouch. PT-2
 
I would like to raise an other issue that has been on my mind. With the plank on bulkhead models you usually end up with all the aspects of the ship included, masts rigging sails and paint. Although I do appreciate most historical ships were painted to an extent I feel reluctant to use paint on the pof model of the le coureur I will start. I will use the admiralty approach and I was thinking how to use the properties of various types of wood to reflect the colour authenticity. I have very little knowledge about the various woods but I was inspired by a build log of HMS Alert where various kinds of wood were used to represent the reds (some one referred to it as Purple Heart I think) the yellows for the upper hull planking and almost black Wood for the whales.. in short I want the wood to speak, not paint
What are people’s views on this?
 
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