Plans for a T-4 Break Bulk Freighter...Or a Merchant Marine Victory Ship

ChristineZ

ChristineZ

Joined
May 5, 2019
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Location
Acton, Massachusetts
Hi all, please indulge my question. I have searched high and low (google) and am trying to find a ship model kit or preferably plans for something similar to the Massachusetts Maritime USTS Kennedy. It is a C4 Break Bulk Cargo Freighter put into service under the MARAD US Maritime Merchant Marine Vessel.

Wiki Link Mass Maritime Academy Link

My son currently attends and is soon to graduate as a marine engineer, and I would so like to present him with a model of his first ship.

Any help to point in the correct direction. I understand that plans will need to be purchased or even researched. However, I am finding my skills at locating some to be less than successful
Thanks
Christine Z
 
I bet shipbuilder (Bob Wilson) can help with this as that is all he does is cargo and merchants.
@shipbuilder
I am attaching his username to this and maybe he will see it.

BTW, welcome to SOS.
 
Christine,
I doubt if there are any kits for C4 cargo ships. The Smithsonian Institute (Washington DC) holds plans for the C4-S-A1 class troopships built towards the end of WWII. But these old ships have often been modified and changed so often that they no longer resemble their original appearance. The Smithsonian does hold full plans of this class.
Bob
 
shipbuilder said:
Christine,
I doubt if there are any kits for C4 cargo ships. The Smithsonian Institute (Washington DC) holds plans for the C4-S-A1 class troopships built towards the end of WWII. But these old ships have often been modified and changed so often that they no longer resemble their original appearance. The Smithsonian does hold full plans of this class.
Bob
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You beat me to it...lol. I did come across the Smithsonian Merchant Marine plans...I am in the process of sending away for the publication. It is $15 and check only and by mail...very old school.

Yes, I know that the TS Kennedy started life as another vessel. Somewhere is was retrofit, the keel was cut and the vessel had several bulkheads added. I know the aft and mid cranes were removed and supplemented with cadet quarters. The ship is designed as a training vessel and can accommodate 600 or so cadets, which is in stark contrast to it's typical professional crew of around 20. The areas for the aft and mid cranes were replaced with superstructure. The Old plans will be a starting point. I can add bulkheads.

Bluejacket does sell a Victory ship, which I believe is in this class, but I am uncertain. It is the closest I have found. I would ignore the deck furniture and scratch my own superstructures to resemble the Kennedy. I suppose I could extend the keel and duplicate some of the mid bulkheads to add length for proper scale. Thoughts?
 
Quite a difficult task. My first ship in 1961 was the SS Rhodesia Star, that began life as an American C3 cargo ship, but completed in 1943 in Tacoma as the aircraft carrier USS Estero, in 1948, rebuilt as a cargo liner and sold the the Blue Star Line of London, but bore no resemblence to the USS Estero. Everyone who got their hands on any of these standard designs after the war, invariably altered them, often beyond recongnition. But, as you say, the plans are a start!
Bob
 
Yes, bluejacket does have the Liberty, The Tanker, and Victory Ship. Is there any reason not to go with a kit like these?
 
Yes, I know that I am out of my knowledge/comfort zone Bob - just throwing out some ideas.
 
Here are a Liberty, and a Victory. The liberty (top) is one I built - the plastic one is a kit -
Bob

St Helena (Large).JPGHawaiian Pilot 375.jpg
 
I purchased the plastic Victory ship on a car boot sale for £1, because it is useful for reference. Those old Revell plastic kits were quite accurate when they did steamers. I also have one of the T2 tanker J L Hanna, lying around somewhere - gave £1 for that, as well - Bob
 
I used to sail a C5-s-75a, the last of the old American C-series break bulkers. A real Cadillac of cargo ships. This was the S.S Cleveland, formerly the S.S President Cleveland, and before that built in 1969 as the S.S. American Mail. Five hatches, a cruising speed of 17 knots, 12 passengers, steam turbine driven. I was her Engine Cadet Midshipman in 1985, then later her Second Engineering Officer. Somewhere I have copies of the General Arrangement blueprints. No scantlings diagrams, but dozens of photos of the entire vessel. She was scrapped in 1996. Of all the ships I've sailed, she was my absolute favorite. Having just gotten off a modern supertanker, the S.S. Exxon Benicia, boarding the President Cleveland was like going back in time, from a modern super tanker back to the 1940's. It felt like I was in a Humphrey Bogart movie. Maybe someday I'll make model of her. I take it you went to Mass Maritime, Christine?

S.S. CLEVELAND.jpg
 
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My first ship was a C3 in 1961 - Very basic and uncomfortable. We didn't even have running water in our cabins, and everything was made of steel, even the cabin furnishings - Bob
Rhodesia Star (Large).JPG
 
shipbuilder said:
My first ship was a C3 in 1961 - Very basic and uncomfortable. We didn't even have running water in our cabins, and everything was made of steel, even the cabin furnishings - Bob
View attachment 130213
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My father sailed a C3 in 1957 as a Midshipman. He later went in the US Navy and worked on a fleet oiler that was a jumboed T-2 tanker.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
I used to sail a C5-s-75a, the last of the old American C-series break bulkers. A real Cadillac of cargo ships. This was the S.S Cleveland, formerly the S.S President Cleveland, and before that built in 1969 as the S.S. American Mail. Five hatches, a cruising speed of 17 knots, 12 passengers, steam turbine driven. I was her Engine Cadet Midshipman in 1985, then later her Second Engineering Officer. Somewhere I have copies of the General Arrangement blueprints. No scantlings diagrams, but dozens of photos of the entire vessel. She was scrapped in 1996. Of all the ships I've sailed, she was my absolute favorite. Having just gotten off a modern supertanker, the S.S. Exxon Benicia, boarding the President Cleveland was like going back in time, from a modern super tanker back to the 1940's. It felt like I was in a Humphrey Bogart movie. Maybe someday I'll make model of her. I take it you went to Mass Maritime, Christine?

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Hi Kurt and thank you...No, my son is a 4th year Cadet. A C1 Marine Engineer

...the Kennedy is a C4 break bulk freighter at its inception and was built as the Velma Lykes (sp). It was purchased or designed, again I don't really know, by MARAD and assigned to Massachusetts Maritime and was born again as the USTS Kennedy.

If I can get a set of hull plans (I do not know the technical terms for the elevations and layouts) I am reasonable confident that I can do the superstructure from photos that I have.

I am seriously considering the Blue Jacket, if only for the plans and hull. It is close enough, although I am sure my son will point out the differences. lol

I am aware that I don't know what I don't know. That is why I am here. I appreciate tremendously the responses. I am a fairly accomplished woodworker with decades of experience. So I think if I just get a sense of the lines on that ship, it would be a start.
 
Hi Christine,

I found the blueprints from the S.S. President Cleveland (S.S. American Mail). The pictures below are not sufficient for modeling, but I can go to Kinko's Copy store and make high resolution scans some time. The paper is a bunch of 8-1/2"x11" sheets held together with scotch tape, now over 35 years old, so they are delicate. Send me your email address. I have no if scanned files will be small enough to email, but we'll see.


Lower decks and double bottom levels.
20200128_064202.jpg

Weather Deck, house, hatches, and winch houses. Shows location of all deck equipment.
20200128_064329.jpg

Orlop and lower decks,
20200128_064413.jpg

General Arrangement blueprint.
20200128_064521.jpg

Original picture as built, the S.S. American Mail.
S.S. American Mail (S.S. Cleveland) 3.jpg

The last time I sailed her, she was the S.S. Cleveland, owned by Sealift Inc.
S.S. Cleveland 3.jpg

This is a postcard of the ship from American President Lines.
SS President Cleveland 3.jpg
 

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Donnie said:
Yes, bluejacket does have the Liberty, The Tanker, and Victory Ship. Is there any reason not to go with a kit like these?
Click to expand...

Donnie, It is a last resort for the Blue Jacket Victory...just because of the cost. I am not against it, just trying to find a closer design. I know I will never find a "Kennedy" simply because as Bob has mentioned these ships are cut up and altered so much by their new owners that they no longer resemble their original lines.
As a practical matter, the Blue Jacket kit I think is solid hull, so cutting it and extending it a couple "bulkheads" shouldn't be too difficult. I'll probably have to do a horizontal bore with some rods to give it integrity.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Hi Christine,

I found the blueprints from the S.S. President Cleveland (S.S. American Mail). The pictures below are not sufficient for modeling, but I can go to Kinko's Copy store and make high resolution scans some time. The paper is a bunch of 8-1/2"x11" sheets held together with scotch tape, now over 35 years old, so they are delicate. Send me your email address. I have no if scanned files will be small enough to email, but we'll see.


Lower decks and double bottom levels.
View attachment 130654

Weather Deck, house, hatches, and winch houses. Shows location of all deck equipment.
View attachment 130655

Orlop and lower decks,
View attachment 130656

General Arrangement blueprint.
View attachment 130658

Original picture as built, the S.S. American Mail.
View attachment 130659

The last time I sailed her, she was the S.S. Cleveland, owned by Sealift Inc.
View attachment 130660

This is a postcard of the ship from American President Lines.
View attachment 130661
Click to expand...
Kurt OMG thank you!! That is so unexpected and very much appreciated.
my email is czacharer@ everyones favorite google email service.

Somewhere along the way, MassMaritime had deck outfit sketches of the Kennedy, so parents could get a sense of classrooms and bunks of the ship layout. But I can no longer locate them.
 
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