Question on HMS Alert Frames

Submarinerblue

Submarinerblue

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In building the Trident Alert model I noticed that all the frames are single frames. The other POF models I’ve built have double frames. That is each frame consisted of two frames glued together with the grain of the wood going in different directions on each of the two frames. This made the frames very strong. The plans for Alert (in the Godwinson book) appear to show single frames. So, the model is accurate In this respect.

So why were single Frames used in Alert? Was it because single frames were used on smaller ships? Or because they were used on clinker planked ships, which cutters like Alert were?

Anyone know?
 
Yes, that’s true, but are they complete double frames or do they only cover the top part of the single frame? They appear to be partial double frames, unless there are other parts I didn’t see,

Nevertheless, my question was about the actual ship, not so much about the kit. Why were not all the frames complete double frames? Was this standard for naval cutters?
 
Submarinerblue said:
Nevertheless, my question was about the actual ship, not so much about the kit. Why were not all the frames complete double frames? Was this standard for naval cutters?
Click to expand...

The framing system used at this period had double frames fitted at every station line (every 4ft as indicated on the draught), with two filling frames evenly disposed between. The double, or main, frames as they were generally referred to, were made up in two 'slices', one half consisting of floor timber, second futtock, and lengthening piece, the other half a first futtock and top timber. With her (Alert) small size no third or fourth futtocks where needed.
once these components have been assembled to form each half of the full-frame the two half were fayed and bolted together at the joint line. The single filling frames where made in an identical manner to each half of a mainframe. All frames were made from compass oak.

Hope this answers your question :)
 
It was also a question (in principle) of a combination of enough stability for the hull, but on the other hand as light as possible....
When you take a look at the much bigger ships of the line from this period - there was necessary to produce "wooden walls" with the help of the solid framing, but for these smaller vessels, like the Alert -> speed was important......
 
The framing system used at this period had double frames fitted at every station line (every 4ft as indicated on the draught), with two filling frames evenly disposed between. The double, or main, frames as they were generally referred to, were made up in two 'slices', one half consisting of floor timber, second futtock, and lengthening piece, the other half a first futtock and top timber.
Click to expand...

Hi Jimsky,

I think that your statement is only half the truth. The frameing system depends on the country and the period

If you build frech ships, you have only double frames, which makes sit quite easy.
If you build English ships the situation is much more complicated. You have at mimimum 3 different frameing systems during the American wars of Revolution:
  1. Conventional English frameing. One double frame is followed by two single frames. This system you will find at English warships from 6th rates and bigger. I don't know if there are also examples for other systems.
  2. Only double frames. One exmaple is the Comet and the ships of this class. As fas as I know was this system also very poular by private shipyards. Cutters and other small vessels are possible candidates for this kind of frameing
  3. Only single frames. HM Sloop Fly is an example for this kind of frameing. I found with the cutter Cheerful annother example which shows this kind of frameing.
Which kind of frameing for the Alert is right, I am afraid that knowlegde was lostz over the last 250 years.
The kit follows mostly Goodwin. I think that it is also possible, that the shipbuilder used one of the other frameing methods. I like to use a stylized frameing for my model in the future.
 
AnobiumPunctatum said:
I think that your statement is only half the truth. The frameing system depends on the country and the period
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you and thank you for your comments. The information (text) was taken from The Construction and Fittings of the Man Of War (1650~1850) by P.Goodwing.
 
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