Question: Why do some people feel model ship building needs a wider audience?

G

Gilles Korent

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Hello,
To follow the discussion here:

an idea to reach more audiences

What do you think about the idea of making a TV program to spread modeling to a wider audience... The masters who are here and have free time can give lessons and practices about modeling... It can also be a source of income for this forum that we are members of... What are your thoughts?
shipsofscale.com
Why do some people feel model ship building needs a wider audience?
What would it achieve?

Pros and cons:
You may answer the question if You think it does.
Others, who think it does not, may also offer their thoughts.

This is a general / wide ranging question addressed to All members, and you may express your thoughts without fear of being "off subject".

Kindest regards.
G.
 
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I think the aim of the broad masses should be that information becomes more valuable as it is shared... Maybe we can encourage and guide people who are hesitant about this issue...
 
Gilles Korent said:
Hello,
To follow the discussion here:

an idea to reach more audiences

What do you think about the idea of making a TV program to spread modeling to a wider audience... The masters who are here and have free time can give lessons and practices about modeling... It can also be a source of income for this forum that we are members of... What are your thoughts?
shipsofscale.com
Why do some people feel model ship building needs a wider audience?
What would it achieve?

Pros and cons:
You may answer the question if You think it does.
Others, who think it does not, may also offer their thoughts.

This is a general / wide ranging question addressed to All members, and you may express your thoughts without fear of being "off subject".

Kindest regards.
G.
Click to expand...
Some people feel model shipbuilding needs a wider audience because they see it as an art form and craft that deserves more recognition. They want it to thrive, not just survive. A bigger audience could mean:
- Preservation of skills: Traditional techniques, historical research, and craftsmanship could be passed to new generations, instead of fading away. (The keyword is New Generation)
- Community growth: More modelers mean more ideas, innovations, and shared knowledge, keeping forums, clubs, and businesses alive and dynamic.
- Commercial support: A larger customer base would help kit manufacturers, toolmakers, and publishers stay in business and perhaps even expand options for builders.
- Cultural appreciation: Model ships represent history, engineering, art, and patience. Bringing it to a wider audience might elevate the public's mind closer to how people regard fine woodworking or classical painting.

However, not everyone believes that ship modeling needs a wider audience, particularly among some scratch builders. These modelers often invest immense time researching original drafts and historical records before ever beginning construction. They view their work as a form of elite craftsmanship, where every detail is an authentic reflection of maritime history. For many of them, models built from commercial kits are not considered part of “true” ship modeling. They take pride in the hobby’s niche, quieter nature, free from trends, mass-market influence, and commercial pressures, valuing passion, their skills, and historical accuracy over popularity.
 
As someone who spent 20 years growing a sport (archery), I think there are definite benefits to increasing interest in model ship building. (National Archery in the Schools Program - co-founder and first CEO). The number of schools and their students participating in archery continues to grow every year. NASP started with 21 schools in Kentucky to more than 14,000 schools and nearly 2 million students across North America today. All 50 states and 9 of Canada's provinces.
  • Greater interest increases diversity of vendors with potential product improvements; quality and variety.
  • Greater vendor sales could decrease costs for the buyer.
  • I gain personal benefit from learning skills needed for kit building. It is a valuable byproduct for me, maybe others as well?
  • Model ship building for some provides mental stimulation and/or peace.
  • It provides a way for people to engage with other people of similar interests. More than ship building relationships could be formed.
  • A sense of belonging is important to many (all?) people.
I can tell you without a doubt anecdotally and via scientific user surveys, those pros are very important outcomes of the tremendous growth in youth archery.
 
Jimsky said:
- Preservation of skills: Traditional techniques, historical research, and craftsmanship could be passed to new generations, instead of fading away. (The keyword is New Generation)
- Community growth: More modelers mean more ideas, innovations, and shared knowledge, keeping forums, clubs, and businesses alive and dynamic.
- Commercial support: A larger customer base would help kit manufacturers, toolmakers, and publishers stay in business and perhaps even expand options for builders.
- Cultural appreciation: Model ships represent history, engineering, art, and patience. Bringing it to a wider audience might elevate the public's mind closer to how people regard fine woodworking or classical painting.
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They are all valid and very important reasons. WELL SAID Thumbsup
Allan
 
I never bothered too much about it. Kits were beyond me - to big - too expensive and too much of same, same. I scratchbuilt from an early age starting with Underhill's brigantine Leon, in his two volumes of Plank on Frame Modelling books. After completion, I could see no reason to bother with kits at all, and everything was scratch after that. This is my last plank-on-frame, before moving to miniatures - I am not a perfectionist, and liked to work at speed, getting each model completed within a few weeks.

An early model 1952.jpgScottish Maid (Large).jpg
 
Right now I am trying to soak up as much information as I can about model ship building from as many sources as possible. This is a hobby I have always wanted to get into, yet was concerned that I could not do it. From this forum and YouTube I am able to find information to learn this craft/art. Yes, I started with a kit but would love to get to a scratch build some day. This forum has pointed me in the right direction for finding resources and knowing what I need to learn the skills. Sometimes I wish that I didn't live in a small town in the mountains so that I could sit with a mentor who wants to pass on the craft. So I would love to see the craft/art spread even further by as many ways as possible. Where I live in the Appalachia area of Virginia, many old crafts/arts have been lost or are only now done by a very few people. I hope that never happens with model ships especially those of the Great Age of Sails.
 
Roger Pellett said:
Jimsky nicely sums up the two points of view. I would add that by its nature scratch building insulates builders from many of the commercial issues raised above.

Roger
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Thank you, I'm glad the summary resonated. I understand both perspectives. However, speaking personally, I don't support the idea that only scratch building represents "true" ship modeling. Even more, I am against 'Elite' scratch building as a club of only specialized and skilled modelers. While kits can sometimes present their own challenges or limitations, they are absolutely essential for the health and growth of our community and should be treated equally as a hobby. Kits provide a vital starting point for many builders, offering a gateway into the craft and helping people develop the skills, confidence, and passion that can later lead to more advanced work, including scratch building. Without kits, our hobby would risk becoming far too exclusive, and we would miss the opportunity to inspire a new generation of ship modelers.

A model built from a kit should not be treated as somehow inferior to one built from scratch. At the end of the day, a well-crafted kit model can be just as impressive, and in many cases, it can be difficult to even distinguish between a finely finished kit and a pure scratch build. Heavy criticism of kit models overlooks the dedication, skill, and artistry that go into building them, regardless of their starting point.
 
As a retailer, and designer and manufacturer of kits, my experience is that it is 99% a question of money. When a new client comes to me, his second question is pretty well always, how much is it going to cost me? When it comes to a full kit, there is the cost of the kit, but there is also the cost of tools, extra materials, time (yes, that's a cost), and space (yes, also a cost).

When it comes to a new design, everything is on the table; design costs, fabrication costs, and all the other costs enumerated above.

So, it starts with the cost. People, especially people new to a subject, want to know how much it will cost to start. So, from that perspective, a wider audience allows designers and manufacturers to detail the construction costs of a project more carefully, and this allows the wider audience to know what they are getting into.

Without the expectation of having a wider audience, there is only so much a designer or manufacturer can put in a kit, or a design. The builder has to come up with their own estimates of total costs. This is a total turn-off for 99% of people who want to start a project. Yes, 1% of builders get started without a total budget in mind but, yes, that's 1% of people.

I know from first-hand experience, I would sell 99 times more kits if I could complete the detailing and costs of every part of one of my new designs (and I am working hard to get there!).
 
Senorbob said:
i have to add my 10 cents here. to the "elite " scratch builders who look down on kits.99.9% of people on earth think that model builders are nerds. kit builders look up to scratch builders because their work is so impressive.don't slam your fans
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Bob,
rshousha has made a valid point based on his actual experience. That said. because scratch builders point out the mistakes in many kits does not mean scratch builders look down on the kit buyers nor does that make them elitist. Pointing out the shortcuts and mistakes due to lack of research by many kit makers is meant to help each other as builders and hopefully get the kit makers to improve.

Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
Bob,
rshousha has made a valid point based on his actual experience. That said. because scratch builders point out the mistakes in many kits does not mean scratch builders look down on the kit buyers nor does that make them elitist. Pointing out the shortcuts and mistakes due to lack of research by many kit makers is meant to help each other as builders and hopefully get the kit makers to improve.

Allan
Click to expand...
Really?
I appreciate your point, but I must respectfully disagree. It’s not about simply pointing out mistakes in kits — it's about how the attitude is often presented. When some scratch builders repeatedly emphasize the "shortcuts" and "lack of research" in kits, or even compare kits with " paint by numbers," it can unintentionally come across as dismissive toward kit builders, even if that’s not the intention. There’s a fine line between offering constructive advice and giving the impression that kit building is somehow a lesser form of the craft. Whether someone builds from scratch or a kit, we should recognize the skill, dedication, and passion involved in both paths, each with their challenges and rewards. Check out this post:

an idea to reach more audiences

What do you think about the idea of making a TV program to spread modeling to a wider audience... The masters who are here and have free time can give lessons and practices about modeling... It can also be a source of income for this forum that we are members of... What are your thoughts?
shipsofscale.com
 
Gilles Korent said:
Why do some people feel model ship building needs a wider audience?
Click to expand...

That question is something of a trap because it invites the reader to judge the motives of other people, other members, and must inevitably give rise to bad feelings on the part of those being judged.

I decline to comment on other's beliefs.

I personally have no particular feelings about the expansion or decline of the hobby. To me it's not particularly important what other people do or think about their hobbies, those amusing ways we choose to fill our leisure time.

So, why did I post this? Maybe I wanted to add the voice of the indifferent majority to ballast this ill tempered discussion, now on its second thread, and guard against capsize?

Or perhaps I'm being mischievous too? ;)

Dunno really. ROTF
 
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The more people are in the hobby the higher the quality will be, but off course with more low quality builds as well.

The more people involved in the hobby the more resources like build logs, books, podcasts, video will be produced.

The more people involved in the hobby the more money will be generated to stimulate more producers of kits, tools and fitting.

And don’t forget recruiting. In a generation there will not be many of the posters on today’s forum that are still active.
 
Jimsky said:
about simply pointing out mistakes in kits
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As a designer of "one-off" or "few-off" designs, I am very happy when people point out issues with my kits. It's how I learn, and how each of my designs is more interesting than the previous one. In order to create a community of builders around my kits, I start a page on RCGroups for each of my models, if the first builder is ready to send some pictures.

This is great fun, allows builders of a specific model to get to know each other, and allows me to follow a build, learn from builders' issues, and improve the next model. For instance, right now I have a new kit in work, and one of the builders, who considers himself a complete novice, has asked me to create some 3D-printed parts for the bow and the stern, so his planking can be more accurate. Here is the result. I could not have done this without some input along the way.

So, I am quite happy to receive constructive criticism for my models. In some instances the ideas are very good but in others I do need to push back but the communication between me and the person commenting is very important. Once people understand the limitations, they are usually fine with it.

Those people who criticize a kit for the sake of criticizing usually don't take the time to consider the cost/benefit analysis that goes into the construction of a particular kit. And this goes back to my original point about prices. Apart from a few very well known subjects, most kits will be sold in onesies and twosies. This means a kit designer needs to make compromises. So, as Jimsky pointed out, it's the attitude that counts. I have sold hundreds of "really bad" kits because the subject matter is what the customer was looking for. Based on the subject matter, if the builder is told in advance there is this issue or that issue with the kit, because of compromises made just to get the kit to market, then the builder is usually quite happy to proceed.

Imagine if all kits had to be made to match the highest standards one can think of. Well, in my opinion, no new kits would ever come to market.

3D-bow-parts-1.jpg
 
Jimsky said:
it's about how the attitude is often presented.
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I get your point Jim and cannot disagree. I do wonder (or maybe it is more hope) that if it would come across more encouraging than disparaging if it were spoken rather than written since we cannot read into the tone. I agree that it can come across as unfriendly if not downright mean but I truly hope that is not their intention.
Allan
 
My local ship model society, (Northwest Model Shipwright's) has recently dropped the name "Shipwrights" from the title, and just became the Northwest Model Society. Hardly any model ships there at all over the last year. I used to enjoy going and seeing all the models - but nothing left for me now, but it hasn't killed my own interest, although I have stopped building them myself now (advancing age and medical reasons). This was my last model, abandoned when it was almost complete. The drawing was also done by myself of the same ship, and is my new direction - drawing .

Maltese Prince.JPG
Maltese Prince drawing (Medium).jpg
 
I always judged my models by the amount they sold for at auction. That may have made me mercenary, but certainly not elitist, because it was only occasionally that I got decent prices. I know that a lot of shipmodellers think it a mortal sin to sell their models for money. But one has got to live. In late 1992, after 31 years at sea, it was all getting too much for me, and I gave up the rat-race to become self-employed as a ship modelmaker,and maritime historian. Even recently, I seldom achieved the minimum price per hour at model shipbuilding, but writing was far more successful with very high hourly rates, but all the model shipbuilding journals have practically gone now, so another door closed, but at 81, I guess it doesn't really matter.
I always thought of myself as "the poor man's model shipbuilder," because I could produce reasonable models in a short space of time at very low prices. But a number of people took advantage of me over the years, but I took it all on the chin - better than the rat race!
 
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