Red Galley / Black Galley

[Cirdan]

Hello friends,

a few years ago I read about the distinction of "red galley" and "black galley" in tudor times. Unfortunately I forgot the source, so I consulted my literature, with no result. Maybe it was a book which I borrowed from my local university library. Anyway, my question is: does anyone know anything about this distinction, the meaning or function of black or red galleys? I don't think that "red galley" was just a name for the ship. At about 1600, for example, there was a galley in the netherlands called "zwarte galei" [= black galley] or "galley of dordrecht". This is an indication that it is more than a mere name for the ship and also more than a tudor feature.

There is also a pictorial source which possibly reflects this distinction (Detail from Smerwick Map, from Bryce Walker: The Armada, Time Life, P. 18, german edition):




The "Tiger" (inside the red circle) is the only ship which is painted black, all the other ships are brown or with coloured decorations. In the time of Henry VIII the Tiger was a galliasse, which was a type related to the galley-type. Before the time, the smerwick-operation took place (1580) she has been converted into a galleon with very slim lines.
But her black colour seems to be a reflection of the topic "red galley / black galley" which nevertheless remains rather mythic to me.

Greetings, Hartmut

 

[Uwek]

I found this


Black Galley cuts out large Spanish Cromster L' Admiral d'Anvers Plate to La Genealogie des Illustres Comtes de Nessau, Jean Orlers, 1615 (2nd ed p.228) (PAD5013)

Black Galley cuts out large Spanish Cromster L' Admiral d'Anvers Plate to La Genealogie des Illustres Comtes de Nessau, Jean Orlers, 1615 (2nd ed p.228) | Royal Museums Greenwich

collections.rmg.co.uk

Soubs Philippe III gouvernant l' Archiduc Albert & le Prince Maurice (PAD5014)

Soubs Philippe III gouvernant l' Archiduc Albert & le Prince Maurice | Royal Museums Greenwich

collections.rmg.co.uk

and




The engraving shows the black galley of Dordrecht which defeats eight Spanish ships on the Schelde river before Antwerp, 29 November 1600. Galley built in assignment for the States of Holland. In the background near Antwerp, a ship is being attacked.

Belgien, Antwerpen; Willem Baudartius - Handwerpia - 1616

Wide margins. Verso: French text. The engraving shows the black galley of Dordrecht which defeats eight Spanish ships on the Schelde river before Antwerp, 29 November 1600. Galley built in assignment for the States of Holland. In the background near Antwerp, a ship is being attacked...

www.catawiki.de

und see especially the pdf attachment

https://www.ssoar.info/ssoar/bitstream/handle/document/54169/ssoar-dsa-2000-stettner-Brander_contra_Schiffbrucke_die_Sperrung.pdf?sequence=1

 

[Cirdan]

Hi Uwe,

thank you very much for the info. Maybe this will help me get ahead.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Indeed a 'black galley' was part of the early Dutch fleet. It was built in Dordrecht.
In 1600 the States of Holland and Zealand ordered several 120 feet long galleys based on the measurements of a Spanish galley that was chased up the beach during a Dutch counter action. The ordered galleys were supposed to fight the galley fleet of Francisco Spinola in Sluis, which they did in 1603. 'Fight galleys with galleys'. The Dutch made their own 'translation' of the Spanish gallon, though it is not quite clear exactly how. I tried to make a reconstruction based on the specification contract, but I failed. I published about it here: Tartan after Chapman - Page 2 - PaperModelers.com

 

[Cirdan]

Hello Ab Hoving,
many thanks for this info and for the link. Recently I discovered a facebook-group about the 80 years war and in it a post by Bouko de Groot about this subject.

80YW.org | Arms Race: galleys in the north, 1600 | Facebook

Arms Race: galleys in the north, 1600 Six Rhine barges were recycled to build the Zwarte Galei (Black Galley) depicted, aka Galley of Dordrecht, in 1600. Captain Jacob Michielsz Wip organized 100...

www.facebook.com

There was also a galley called the "Red Galley", or Galley of Vlaardingen. Do you know anything about the meaning of this distinction? It seems to be a topic of its own, as this distinction (red galley - black galley) was also made in England.

 

[Ab Hoving]

The only thing we can say about the black galley is that is was not black. If the colors red and black were a distiction for ships of various sizes I really don’t know. I will see if I can get a copy of his book about the early Dutch navy. Very interested in his sources.
Thanks.