Riging help on Occre Montanes

Cankita

Cankita

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Can anyone help with a puzzle with rigging on Occre's Montanes ship (see diagram)? Lines 409-416 and 412-417 plus 410 obviously hold up the yards but I can't figure out where lines 411 and 413 go. Bothe these seem to disappear either behind or through the mast. There are a couple of slots in the masts at this point (see right side of diagram) but if the lines go through these I can't see what purpose they serve. Any ideas?
Montanes.jpg
 
Cankita said:
Can anyone help with a puzzle with rigging on Occre's Montanes ship (see diagram)? Lines 409-416 and 412-417 plus 410 obviously hold up the yards but I can't figure out where lines 411 and 413 go. Bothe these seem to disappear either behind or through the mast. There are a couple of slots in the masts at this point (see right side of diagram) but if the lines go through these I can't see what purpose they serve. Any ideas?
View attachment 455755
Click to expand...
They are used for raising and lowering the top and top gallant masts, I will see if I can attach a couple of photos,
Best regards John,
 
Assuming I read it correctly, as I look at the belaying plan of the Montanes, I see two spots called 411 and 413. It looks like they attach to one of the pinrails.
1719760023953.png
 
I hope you don't mind if I ask a question, but did rigging exist to hold up the mast tops? 411 and 413 look like they are holding up the mast top. I have built a few ships, and I have never seen this.
 
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This lines are called top-ropes, which hoist the topmasts up into position. These ropes are usually rigged temporarily and their blocks and lines are removed once the topmasts are secured in positions aloft. You can leave off the top-ropes for hoisting the topgallants masts and keep things simple. Using top ropes, the upper masts (topmast, topgallant mast) can be raised or lowered telescopically to allow for replacement or repairs. A ship is usually demasted like this when in ordinary (out of service at dock or at anchor) for long periods of time. Most models do not feature top ropes because they are usually not rigged while the ship is sailing. I rigged the top ropes for the fore and main topgallants for purposes of display.

On my model, the top rope starts at an eye on the bottom of the masthead, and runs down and to the first sheave in the foot of the topmast, up to a block on the opposite side which is hooked to another eye on the masthead, then down again and through a second sheave in the topmast foot, up to a second block hung from the masthead, then finally down to the deck where it is belayed to a tackle in front of the mast. On your model, the top ropes for the main mast are belayed to a belaying pin rack in front of the mast.

Foremast viewed from port side
1719761876350.png

Foremast viewed from starboard side
1719761892579.png

Top-rope tackle on forecastle deck in front of the foremast.
1719761908204.png
 
Kurt's description may be spot on. Is this the Montanes (74) 1794?

Another thought ----- 411 and 413 look to be ties (top ropes) which were used in the 17th century. One end of the ties was seized to the yard at the slings . The other end was taken through the sheave in the hounds of the mast from forward to aft, led down abaft the mast, passed through the athwartship hole in a rams head block then back up and through the sheave on the other side of the mast and seized to to the yard close to the standing part of the tie at the slings. It was of such a length as to allow the yard to be lowered to the deck. There is more detail and drawings on page 63 of The Masting and Rigging by James Lees but maybe the Spanish did things completely differently than the British. The problem is that your drawing shows both ties and jeers. The jeers took the place of the ties on British ships before the end of the 17th century and were used in conjunction with slings. All in all, I think the drawing you posted is not representative of how jeers and the slings would have been rigged in 1794 when Montanes was launched. Looking at the sketches I cannot tell if there are slings present but there are ties (top ropes) that I do not believe should be there as there are already jeers present.
You may want to contact the Naval Museum in Madrid for more accurate information.
Allan
 
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