Saint-Philippe 1693-POF to the Monograph by Jean-Claude Lemineur by NMBrook-1/36

NMBROOK

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Hello Everyone

First a little bit of an introductory post.I always had a passion for the ornately decorated warships of "The Sun King".I did build Sergal's Soleil Royal many years ago.I possessed a desire to build one of these vessels with much more detail and accuracy than the Sergal offering.The L'Ambiteaux monograph appealed but had been long out of print in English at the time I discovered her in Bernard Frolich's amazing book "The Art of Shipmodelling".So the idea just sat on the backburner for many years.Very little information was available on these great ships.
Last year,everything changed in that the L'Ambiteaux monograph was reprinted but I held off buying a copy.We have been living in a rented house after I relocated for work four years ago.I had lost the insulated workshop I once had where we lived previously.I currently have a small garage now,but it is damp and didn't fancy the notion of trying to build a plank on frame model on the kitchen table.
At the beginning of this year everything looked to change.We are in the process of buying a brand new house.It has a large integrated garage which should not be overly cold nor will it be damp.This came just after the new release of Jean-Claude Lemineur's new Monograph.The Saint-Philippe to me is much more of a ornate vessel than L'Ambiteaux,more like that of Le Soleil Royal.I am certain that a Soleil Royal 1669 monograph will never appear,little information exists on her design.
What I hope to do with this log is to start at the very beginning.It will be several months before I have settled into my new workshop.I will start with the vessel's history in brief followed by scale selection.I will then look at tool selection,what I will and will not require to buy for the new workshop in order to build this model.Finally before I make sawdust, I will discuss some of the unique design aspects of this vessel and how I propose to get around them.
As a final note,I do have various 'kit builds' on the go.It is my intention to carry on with these in tandem with this build.These are things I can work away at in a hobby room in the house and at times of night,when it may not be advisable to fire up wood working machinery or just when I have the odd hour to spare.I do anticipate this to be a very long build and may be the only one of this nature I do in my lifetime.

Kind Regards

Nigel
 
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Uwek

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Hallo Nigel,
I am very very happy, that you decided to start this log.
First of all, because it is very interesting vessel, based on one of my favourite monographies, than off course because of the unusual but interesting scale.
And in addition I am very happy, that you will share your complete preparation of this / your built - I am pretty sure, that it will be an interesting and entertaining description, and I am happy to share my thought, ideas and information. But not only me - there will be a lot of members which will look forward to participate with comments and posts in this log - GREAT
 

NMBROOK

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Thank you Uwe.Now for a short history leason

Saint-Philippe was ordered in late 1692 to be built at the Toulon shipyard by Francois Coulomb.She was the second vessel of the Tonnant class.On 20 January she was given her name after a vessel lost in the action at La Hogue in June 1692,The Saint-Philippe was launched in October 1693 and completed in December of the same year.
She was initially armed with 90 guns,comprising of twenty-eight 36 pounders on the lower deck,thirty 18 pounders on the middle deck,twenty-six 12 pounders on the upper deck and six 6 ponders on the quarterdeck.
She was returned to Toulon in February 1699 where she was rebuilt.
On 24 August 1704,she took part in the Battle of Velez-Malaga,the largest naval battle in the War of the Spanish Succession.She was under the command of the Chevalier Louis le Roux de Saint-Aubin and d'Infreville,rear admiral of the blue and white squadron of the vanguard.
In July 1707,during the siege of Toulon,Saint-Philippe and her sister were undergoing a refit in the basin of le Mourillion and avoided the scuttling order which affected most of the French ships at Toulon,they were sailed to counter the British attack and used as floating batteries.
The Saint-Philippe was condemned on the 18 August 1714 and dismantled after being retired in the previous year.

Finally a couple of pictures of a 1/48 model of Saint-Philippe built by Michel Margerotte

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NMBROOK

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Now onto the subject that Uwe mentioned in his post,scale.Why 1/36?Well I have worked in many scales with the different types of models I have made,1/700 being the smallest.With wooden models I have predominantly worked in scales around the 1/72 mark.Royal Caroline being an exception at 1/47.
Well,the answer is simply that the plethora of details illustrated in the monograph can be better represented.When working with wood you are limited by the mechanical properties of the material.Invariably things like window frames can be come overthick at smaller scales,too thin and the wood becomes too fragile.Compromises had to be made.Other finer details are often left out as they cannot be represented faithfully.
As I mentioned in my introductory post,this will quite probably be the only build I undertake of this type,so why not go all out and stretch my ability to try and incorporate as many of the finer details as is possible.
Ultimately this will result in a large model,the hull alone will be 1700mm long and the stern from keel to taffrail will be around 500mm.I have the space to build the model and most importantly the space to display the finished article.Having seen a 1/24 model of Nelson's Agamemnon many years ago,nothing really does convey the might or complexity of these wooden behemoths than a large model.
Finally I include some pictures of Alexey Baranov's 1/36 Cumberland.This is his preferred scale for many of the reasons I mention and seeing this model evolve has further inspired me to build a model in this large scale.

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NMBROOK

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Thank you Brian and Knut.
I think a model of this size doesn't necessitate a large workshop but it helps.Yes I will need a permanent build table set up that I can walk all the way around some 2000mm X 600mm.That rules the kitchen table out.Another bench for doing preparation work is a virtual necessity.Beyond that,anything extra is all about saving time if used properly.
I do plan on employing Lean Manufacturing from my day job to try and reduce down time.Time is precious and this is a big project,it would be silly not to look at efficiency of processes so I don't waste it.This is where space does come into play,removing one tool from a shelf and placing it back repetitively can eat away at that precious time.Having not to pack everything away at end of a day also maximises time spent on the model provided the work area is kept clean.

Kind Regards

Nigel
 

Maarten

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Hi Nigel,

Looking forward to this project. I also have this model in mind as a possible new candidate , not in 1:36 but 1:48. Currently building my 1:30 royal Caroline and I agree this scala is creating fantastic posibillities to detail as much as you like.
 

NMBROOK

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Hi Maarten

Yes 1/36 opens up endless possibilities but whatever scale one chooses,the wealth of information is there in this publication to build a fantastic model of what was a very ornate vessel quite typical of the period.I have always been a massive fan of these 17th Century vessels and also have the Restoration warship(Lennox) and Gilbert McArdle's Sussex books.Both are beautiful vessels but neither quite 'hits the spot' like the Saint-Philippe.
I also have the Renommee Monograph,but the only thing about all these subjects from the Ancre books is,for me, one is following a 'well trodden' path.I am excited in that I will be building a model from this publication that hasn't been done before numerous times.That isn't without it's own issues,if I am unsure as to the joint say between two counter timbers,I can't simply look at someone else's log.For me,that is a plus,I have to have a deep understanding of how this vessel was constructed before I start.Elements of the construction of this vessel are different from those depicted in the other Ancre monographs.Her construction is massively different from that of L'Ambiteaux.
It would be fabulous to have another member building this vessel in the future and have someone to exchange ideas with.

Kind Regards

Nigel
 

Kortes

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Greetings, dear Nigel,
It looks you have a grand project. Among other things
such vessels are richly decorated, therefore it will require great skills in
carving, that not all modelists have. I would like to wish you inspiration in your work.
My best regards
 

Maarten

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Hi Maarten

Yes 1/36 opens up endless possibilities but whatever scale one chooses,the wealth of information is there in this publication to build a fantastic model of what was a very ornate vessel quite typical of the period.I have always been a massive fan of these 17th Century vessels and also have the Restoration warship(Lennox) and Gilbert McArdle's Sussex books.Both are beautiful vessels but neither quite 'hits the spot' like the Saint-Philippe.
I also have the Renommee Monograph,but the only thing about all these subjects from the Ancre books is,for me, one is following a 'well trodden' path.I am excited in that I will be building a model from this publication that hasn't been done before numerous times.That isn't without it's own issues,if I am unsure as to the joint say between two counter timbers,I can't simply look at someone else's log.For me,that is a plus,I have to have a deep understanding of how this vessel was constructed before I start.Elements of the construction of this vessel are different from those depicted in the other Ancre monographs.Her construction is massively different from that of L'Ambiteaux.
It would be fabulous to have another member building this vessel in the future and have someone to exchange ideas with.

Kind Regards

Nigel
I still need some time to finish my rc. I am not the person to deal with several projects at one time and I fon't have the time for that either.
Would be great if we can build along the same path and learn from each other.
 

modelshipwright

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This sounds like a great project Nigel. I am certainly looking forward to you starting it and intend to follow you through its build. So many challenges but at the end you will have a unique model that is not seen every day. The scale is very interesting and will in some ways be easier than smaller models but no less the challenge to achieve.

Bill
 

NMBROOK

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Greetings, dear Nigel,
It looks you have a grand project. Among other things
such vessels are richly decorated, therefore it will require great skills in
carving, that not all modelists have. I would like to wish you inspiration in your work.
My best regards
Thank you Aleksandr

Yes the carvings are a big part of the build.I have done a little carving before in swiss pear.I haven't decided whether the carvings will be boxwood like Frolich or Pear like the work of Narim Maygeldinov.Long way to go before I need to make that decision.
I include a couple of pictures of my carving on Sovereign of the Seas at 1/84.1/36 will be much more fun than that small scale.

Kind Regards

Nigel

sov111.jpgsov112.jpg
 

NMBROOK

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This sounds like a great project Nigel. I am certainly looking forward to you starting it and intend to follow you through its build. So many challenges but at the end you will have a unique model that is not seen every day. The scale is very interesting and will in some ways be easier than smaller models but no less the challenge to achieve.

Bill

Bill

Thank you.I very much enjoy the collaboration and discussion we have had and continue to share regarding Sovereign of the Seas:)Regarding the scale,yes many details are easier to replicate,but at the same time the modeller is compelled to include some that wouldn't be shown at the smaller scales.

Kind Regards

Nigel
 

NMBROOK

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Thank you everyone for your interest and support
The next topic is research.I include pictures of the three books I will be consulting;
The first is the monograph which is self explanitory
The second is another publication by Jean-Claud Lemineur.This details the design and construction of the vessels in general under Louis XIV.I bought this book when it was reprinted but have not had chance to read it properly.It does go into detail of the variation in construction of the vessels and the design of their armament.I anticipate some crossover between this and the monograph but I do feel it may contain some details that aren't covered.
Finally Bernhard Frolich's book.I have read this many times but to anyone contemplating a build like this one,I feel it deserves a mention.

Kind Regards

Nigel

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NMBROOK

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A little update in that my timber 'sample' landed today.I thought I was going to struggle when Dennis Nixon of Twigfolly retired a while ago.He was a brilliant chap and custom cut all the pear for my Nuestra Senora build.
I have found a company in the UK that supplies Steamed Pear in boards of thicknesses ranging from 2mm to 13mm.The boards are virtually flawless,something rare with pear when we get to these sizes.Being able to buy thinner stock instead of 50mm boards will ease my tool selection.I propose to buy a bandsaw to cut my frames.I can use a narrow blade for curved frames and a wider blade for straight cuts.This IMHO is vastly superior to using a scroll saw.These boards will need reducing in thickness which will be covered later in the 'tool selection' posts.
I will post a link to the UK supplier in due course,in the meantime I admit I am going to be a little selfish.These boards vary as to what is available and I will probably be buying all their stock for the next 3 months:oops:

Kind Regards

Nigel

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NMBROOK

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Yes Brian,I am very pleased with the timber and it was good value buying in these sizes.Don't get me wrong,I am under no illusion that the timber for this build is going to be cheap,but because of the quantity involved any savings to be made will soon add upThumbsup

Kind Regards

Nigel
 
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