Securing blocks to a a bowsprit.

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Could anybody give em advice/piccies on the best way to secure blocks on the bowsprit? I am making the CC model of Diana and am struggling to get near attachments of the blocks that are doubled up - ie one block on each side. Do I attach them independently or can they be done together? Peter
 
The bowsprit actually has 6 blocks on the aft fitting: the top ‘block’ - 304 - is an 8mm closed heart block whilst on each side and underside - 305 - are 5mm Deadeyes. Hmm, tricky. Peter
 
From what I can see on the drawing, it appears that the blocks are attached to the bowsprit with the same lashing for the set. So, it looks like the front lashing has a 304 and a 305 and the rear lashing has a 304 and (3) 305's on its own lashing. What do the instructions show for this section of the build? I looked online, but could not find any plans or pictures that showed this area well.
 
And therein lies the problem!! I, like you, think it looks as if they are attached on the same line. The instructions are bland merely directing that the blocks are secured ‘as indicated on the plans’. So I clearly image.jpgsee where they should go but still a little stumped as to how to attach neatly; I just sense lots of individual loops around the sprit will look unbalanced and untidy. Peter
 
you could attach each block with a small eye pin drilled into the bowsprit then wrap a rope around them to try and simulate the drawing
 
I have to find my drawings, but one ship has this same design. They show a method using a long string and blocks with eyes on top. String is run thru hole in mast or bow sprint in form a big S shape, start with string going thru in your case from bottom to top, leave length hanging out bottom, then when it comes out top, run thru eye of top block and back thru hole, thru eye on bottom block and back out top. Pull tight and supper glue string. Trim excess tails off. This requires a bigger hole but works well.
 
Okay - I have decided to proceed along the following lines. I had an 'S' shaped loop of 0.5 natural line which I held in my clamps, seized each end to form a secure loop into which I placed a heart shaped block and a deadeye at each end. I tightened the seizing and then drew the lines tight around the blocks whilst preserving the central space. I slipped the piece over the bowsprit an then, when the correct position, tightened the lines to clamp it; then applied a little watered PVA to secure in place. I used the wrong line so used some India ink to dye it black. The key is the correct seizing line; if it is too thin - i.e. cotton, it wont hold the tension around the mast and the knot slips. I used 0.25mm line to seize. Seems to work okay. For the aft securing (4 blocks) I will secure two at a time an dthen abut the lines. Peter
 

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Okay - I have decided to proceed along the following lines. I had an 'S' shaped loop of 0.5 natural line which I held in my clamps, seized each end to form a secure loop into which I placed a heart shaped block and a deadeye at each end. I tightened the seizing and then drew the lines tight around the blocks whilst preserving the central space. I slipped the piece over the bowsprit an then, when the correct position, tightened the lines to clamp it; then applied a little watered PVA to secure in place. I used the wrong line so used some India ink to dye it black. The key is the correct seizing line; if it is too thin - i.e. cotton, it wont hold the tension around the mast and the knot slips. I used 0.25mm line to seize. Seems to work okay. For the aft securing (4 blocks) I will secure two at a time an dthen abut the lines. Peter
That's the best way I know how. It's a bit complicated but the results are neat. I had to secure pairs of 2mm blocks to the bowsprit of La Couronne and used the same method, but it was much thinner thread and smaller blocks. Needle nosed pliers are good for tiny work!
 
That's the best way I know how. It's a bit complicated but the results are neat. I had to secure pairs of 2mm blocks to the bowsprit of La Couronne and used the same method, but it was much thinner thread and smaller blocks. Needle nosed pliers are good for tiny work!
Aside from the drawing and suggested attachment with lines, I question if the forces to be restrained in the actual full size conditions would have been "lashed with lines"? In my mind there could have been a metal band with extensions on the appropriate sides/places with holes for links to each block. A mechanical anchor and not a line. The band would have to be very narrow and a challenge to make but with the "ears" sticking out for the blocks and associated holes for fine wire stropped blocks I think it would be closer to shipbuilding/rigging reality that is often passed by in model builds. Just a sideliner's thoughts and not those of an expert or historian. PT-2
 
Aside from the drawing and suggested attachment with lines, I question if the forces to be restrained in the actual full size conditions would have been "lashed with lines"? In my mind there could have been a metal band with extensions on the appropriate sides/places with holes for links to each block. A mechanical anchor and not a line. The band would have to be very narrow and a challenge to make but with the "ears" sticking out for the blocks and associated holes for fine wire stropped blocks I think it would be closer to shipbuilding/rigging reality that is often passed by in model builds. Just a sideliner's thoughts and not those of an expert or historian. PT-2
On later 18th and 19th century vessels you would find metal bands on yards to secure block strops to. Generally, on older ships, rope was commonly used in place of iron for many rigging attachments. Block strops were rope, as were mast wooldings, and anchor rope, not chain. See the sheet and clue line blocks attached to the yard below on the 18th century ship. Every time you research into a ship from a different time, you see changes in materials and rigging methods. Generalizations are hard to make because information on actual ships is full of holes and variations not just across time and country of origin, but between individual vessels abound. The amount of guesswork building a 17th century and a well documented 19th century English ship model is VAST. Imagine trying to build an accurate replica of an ancient Greek or Egyptian vessel...

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On later 18th and 19th century vessels you would find metal bands on yards to secure block strops to. Generally, on older ships, rope was commonly used in place of iron for many rigging attachments. Block strops were rope, as were mast wooldings, and anchor rope, not chain. See the sheet and clue line blocks attached to the yard below on the 18th century ship. Every time you research into a ship from a different time, you see changes in materials and rigging methods. Generalizations are hard to make because information on actual ships is full of holes and variations not just across time and country of origin, but between individual vessels abound. The amount of guesswork building a 17th century and a well documented 19th century English ship model is VAST. Imagine trying to build an accurate replica of an ancient Greek or Egyptian vessel...

View attachment 185410
There are surviving examples of Egyptian boats that were excavated by the Great Pyramid as I recall a few decades back with everything present if not actually in place. That would be one to look at for some questions. However the ships of war and others that our builders are interested in depend upon more current "historians" whose opinions as you say vary, not necessarily right or wrong but differing interpretations of their sources and sometimes from the same one. It will be interesting to see how you work it our in your ship model. PT-2
 
There are surviving examples of Egyptian boats that were excavated by the Great Pyramid as I recall a few decades back with everything present if not actually in place. That would be one to look at for some questions. However the ships of war and others that our builders are interested in depend upon more current "historians" whose opinions as you say vary, not necessarily right or wrong but differing interpretations of their sources and sometimes from the same one. It will be interesting to see how you work it our in your ship model. PT-2
Yeah, trying to build an accurate model was a lot more research work that I bargained for, and you never has all the information you want.
 
I have faced this same issue in several models. I decided on simply attaching each block separately and independently. I only wrap the lashing once around the bowsprit to keep them from becoming too bulky. First seize a block to the thread...wrap the thread around the bowsprit once...then seize to itself next to the block...pull tight. At the scale we work with it looks good even if not technically correct. The seizing is a figure eight rig with the block on one loop and the bowsprit on the other.
 
Go to this link as it shows step by step how to do this:
(then go to Post 189 and Post 190, etc)
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Go to this link as it shows step by step how to do this:
(then go to Post 189 and Post 190, etc)
View attachment 186032


Nice work Donnie!
 
Nice work Donnie!
I agree with your decision for your own build as we all produce only models with a scale and appearance that we desire. . . usually not in actual scale which would appear strange. Just my thought. PT-2
 
Could anybody give em advice/piccies on the best way to secure blocks on the bowsprit? I am making the CC model of Diana and am struggling to get near attachments of the blocks that are doubled up - ie one block on each side. Do I attach them independently or can they be done together? Peter
I tie the blocks in line, at a distance of the diameter of the bowsprite, and tie the free ends underneath so that they sit either side (like saddle bags). The whole through the spar works well for single blocks especially to ensure correct position. I put free end through the hole beneath the block , take each up and around a full turn and tie underneath. Alternatively, if there is room, pull them through the hole again with the first pass.
 
When I was faced with this problem on the Caldercraft Snake I did the following -
I got a small piece of waste wood and drilled two holes side by side just big enough to fit a couple of belay pins.
Then get the dead eye or block and secure it with a brass nail to your work bench or similar.
Then thread the appropriate thread through the holes in the waste wood, adjust it so there is a loop of thread big enough to go around the block then lock the the thread into the waste wood with the belay pins.
Locate the thread into the groove in the block and pulling gently on the thread loop twist the waste wood until there is a tight twist in the thread. Then using a small amount of cyano glue place it to lock the first couple of twists of thread. Once dry, release the belay pins and waste wood, then untwist the thread and trim the excess thread to about 10 mm.
Mark the bowsprit where the gammoning and the blocks should be.
Using cyano attach the blocks etc to the bowsprit. Start the gammoning and trim back the block thread so it is covered by the gammoning.
Hope this helps.

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Woody
 
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