Serafill and making thicker rope on ropewalk question

Steef66

Steef66

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Rope making on a rope walk is easy. Lots of video's and how to tutorials. I found a video of Olha Batchvarov and her way I used to make it. A ropewalk (3 ropes elektric) and and at the end a runner like her video with a elektric motor counter wise.



But I tried to make 2 mm rope from Amann Serafill 120/2 and that is not what I expected.
in post #41 of this thread of KUDIN I saw this https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/le-fleuron-1729-1-48-kudin-andrey-youtube.3249/page-3

1080_30_29-77_jun082019_3-gif.100555


when I do this, this happens:

IMG_1549.JPG

What do I do wrong? this was 3 x 32
How do you make 2 mm rope from 120/2 serafill?

I hope I posted this thread in the correct sub
 
I am afraid no one understood why you think you are having an issue. Cannot you just cut off the unwound strands and use the rest of rope? The rest of the rope looks good enough to me.
 
It look good, but I want to make slice and things but cant keep the rope together. I saw in the video that he uses 3 x 3 x ..... rope so he makes first a rope from yarn and then makes from 3 of these ropes a thicker rope. I think. In the morning I will try it.
 
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I definitely would try using thicker threads (probably 60 or 80 in lieu of 120). In my experience using high number of thin lines causes some of them not to be streched properly and uniformly before the rope shaping and this results in loose, inconsistent thread.
János
 
janos said:
I definitely would try using thicker threads (probably 60 or 80 in lieu of 120). In my experience using high number of thin lines causes some of them not to be streched properly and uniformly before the rope shaping and this results in loose, inconsistent thread.
János
Click to expand...
I have observed this. When all the yarn was stretched and I removed the clamp on the carriage.
And which polyester yarn is comparable to Serafill of Amann?

The main problem is that the rope doesn't stay in shape, even a little.

Thanks sofar JANOS and Y.T. :)
 
Y.T. said:
I know why individual strands got unwound. You have to change the direction of rotation when making rope from 3 individual strands.
Click to expand...
Yes there I was aware about.
I make a rope of 3 strings of 32 yarn threads. That was the problem.
Today I tried to do it with thicker yarn. I used Gutermann 3x8 that did not give a very good result

IMG_1551.JPG

Looks good but the end keep unwrapping when separated. But better as before.

Now I tried to make bigger rope from Serafil but made of 3 ropes of 3x6 (0,7 mm thick) And I got the result I wanted.
The result is 1,55 mm ( 3x 0,7!!) So to make 2.0 mm
And you can see in the picture left turned (S rope) goes to right turned (Z rope) (Serafil is right turned)

IMG_1550.JPG
In the middle you can see that it stays in shape even after the knot

I think I solved the problem. I found also a article on MSW and some russian site https://www.shipmodeling.ru/content/tooling/detail.php?ID=302

On MSW I readd that for example I use 3x 32 this is to much to keep the tension in the rope to stop the unwrapping. 3x6 or 8 is the maximum to avoid unwrapping.
There is also a way to treading the rope to stay in shape, like Mat uses Bitumen, but also beeswax or chellac highly diluted. But my idea is that it has to stay in shape by it's own.
 
I read a post that someone heating up the rope. So, I tried it and the result is pretty good. The ends are a little burned but it stays together even under moving it around and pressure. This is better because this saves time.

IMG_1552.JPG
I did this with a lighter. But I think it is better with a electric paint burner or a heat blowing soldering torch.

I'm glad I found this method. Because I had made a lot of thread already, afraid to throw it away. Greta wouldn't like that :p

But also I like this rope more than the multi string before (black rope post #10)
 
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Jolley Roger said:
Yes, i've seen somewhere that some guys bake their polyester rope in an oven(on low heat of course) to prevent it from unwinding
Glad you found a solution to the problem.
Click to expand...
I saw that to, I think I'm gonna do that to. Just if somebody has advice about temperature and time is welcome.
 
I found a suggestion on MSW again.

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19...or-making-rope/?do=findComment&comment=706063 There is a pdf where there is a explanation of how to "bake"polyester rope. Wind your rope around a metal pully or something and back in an oven on 350 degrees (I guess Fahrenheit in Celcius it would be 176 degrees) for max 5 minutes. o_O from searching the internet pfff. I will test and share my results later.
 
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It works! I uses old tin cans (beans or soup)
of 1 can I get 2 cylinders where I can wrap the rope on to avoid a kink in the wire.

My test came out and I can cut it without fraying, I can even get the wire split up.
350 degrees Kelvin or 175 degrees Celsius for 5 minutes

IMG_1553.JPGIMG_1554.JPGIMG_1555.JPG
 
Steef66 said:
Rope making on a rope walk is easy. Lots of video's and how to tutorials. I found a video of Olha Batchvarov and her way I used to make it. A ropewalk (3 ropes elektric) and and at the end a runner like her video with a elektric motor counter wise.



But I tried to make 2 mm rope from Amann Serafill 120/2 and that is not what I expected.
in post #41 of this thread of KUDIN I saw this https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/le-fleuron-1729-1-48-kudin-andrey-youtube.3249/page-3

1080_30_29-77_jun082019_3-gif.100555


when I do this, this happens:

View attachment 227339

What do I do wrong? this was 3 x 32
How do you make 2 mm rope from 120/2 serafill?

I hope I posted this thread in the correct sub
Click to expand...
1. You are making a left hand twist rope, therefore:
a) each of the three strands MUST be right hand twist,
b) each of the three strands needs to have a high 'twist density'. Your strands are barely twisted at all. Twist each of the stands separately (right hand) before trying to make rope,
c) the third option is to use crochet cotton thread to make your ropes. Cotton does not have the severe 'memory' problem the 'plastic' threads have.
Switch to cotton and virtually all the problems go away.
 
Hello,
You can use a heat gun to keep the wires from coming undone. Only a few seconds at 200 ° Celsius and that's enough. We see the thread retract a little and then we can cut it without worry. It consumes less energy than the oven
Best regard,
Fred
 
@bill36
I solved the problem with baking the thread after it comes of the rope walk.
The picture below is polyester rope 2 mm made of yarn 3 times 32 threads of serafil (Amann) right hand twist.
I heated it in the oven for 5 minutes at 175 degrees Celsius. After that I can cut it or separate the 3 threads. It keeps in shape no unwrapping. The 'memory' problem solved by heating the polyester. :)

IMG_1553.JPG

@Fred P. thanks for the advice.
 
Steef66 said:
@bill36
I solved the problem with baking the thread after it comes of the rope walk.
The picture below is polyester rope 2 mm made of yarn 3 times 32 threads of serafil (Amann) right hand twist.
I heated it in the oven for 5 minutes at 175 degrees Celsius. After that I can cut it or separate the 3 threads. It keeps in shape no unwrapping. The 'memory' problem solved by heating the polyester. :)

View attachment 228187

@Fred P. thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...
Please excuse the newbie question, but what is the meaning of 3 x 32 threads? Does it mean that there are 32 strands on each of the 3 hooks on the rope walk? There is also the business of left and right hand twist. I will be trying to make 5mm rope and am assuming that I will need to make three ropes and then twist these into the thicker rope. Does this mean that I turn the handle one way for the first set and then reverse when combining into the final rope?
 
Digger said:
Please excuse the newbie question, but what is the meaning of 3 x 32 threads? Does it mean that there are 32 strands on each of the 3 hooks on the rope walk? There is also the business of left and right hand twist. I will be trying to make 5mm rope and am assuming that I will need to make three ropes and then twist these into the thicker rope. Does this mean that I turn the handle one way for the first set and then reverse when combining into the final rope?
Click to expand...
Yes, I did 32 strands on 1 hook. I used Serafil, but this is 0,12 mm thick yarn. Making 5 mm rope you can use thicker yarn. Most of the ropes on a ship are righthanded Z-twist.
Left handen S-twist is mostly cable. This is made of right handed rope. Do you need 5 meter or is 5 times 1 meter also okay? I see Brian gives you a link what machine is perfect for the job.
About rope see this discussion https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...an-1627-1-48-completed-build.7055/post-189784

A download link to the document you find here https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...an-1627-1-48-completed-build.7055/post-189785
 
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