Trying to understand scale rope mesurements

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clogger

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Hi
I’m scratch building Le Rochefort 1787 to 1/36 scale following Adrian Sorolla’s instruction book. I’m looking at the recommended rope sizes for this scale ship, 1/36.
See photos attached.
12208EC5-3652-4DE6-949E-98FE6314C61D.jpeg1BF9225B-3BE6-4705-A1F6-BD78BB359988.jpeg35D06FDE-6F3B-4D50-A523-0A4BF821A4BB.jpeg

Under 1/36 scale the rope circumferences are given I think.
Question
Do I need to source all the different sizes as specified?
What colour ropes do I need? Which would be Black? which would be Tan?
I’m confused as to the reference to the ‘pouches’ inches in English I think. Take the first line giving the recommended size for the Hoist Tackle as 4,5 pouches, inches?
4.5 inches is 114.3mm
114.3mm at 1/36 scale is 3.17mm i think?
At 1/36 scale its given as 1.07mm??
Am I being stupid??
 
Thanks for that

But why for example is the first item Hoist Tackle given at 4.5 inches (pouces) and then 36.89cm at full scale? The conversion table converts 4.5 inches to 11.43cm??
 
clogger said:
Thanks for that

But why for example is the first item Hoist Tackle given at 4.5 inches (pouces) and then 36.89cm at full scale? The conversion table converts 4.5 inches to 11.43cm??
Click to expand...
It makes me wonder if they're expressing length? That table needs some serious explanation.
 
First of all, all Ancre books give dimensions in French inches (pouce) which are different from English inches. It is 27.07mm.
Then historically the size of the rigging was expressed not in diameter but in circumference. In this case 4.5 french inches = 121.815mm in circumference. Diameter = 121.815/pi = 38.69mm
 
Thanks Philski I happen to have that book Ship to Stern!

Thanks Oleg. So all the scaled dimensions given are Diameters of the Rope then?
The book did not explain that the scale figures given are in Diameters!
I’ve tried your method of conversion and it works!
I tried to convert the next ‘Falls of Hoist Tackle’. It’s Pouce is given as 2
So Am I correct in now converting it to mm by multiplying 2 (pouce) by 27.07mm which would give 54.14?
Then divide this answer (54.14) by Pi (I use 3.14) to get the Diameter which would give 17.24mm? and at 1/36 scale is 0.47mm.
B66C74C5-2289-45E9-A48C-E8CEC818EAF3.jpeg

The only other question was do modellers need to be so precise with the scale rope needed to be sourced? Or can one just make generalisations?
And there is no guide as to the colour of the ropes recommended?
 
To answer you question of rigging colors. Standing rigging was black because of the fact I was mostly treated with a tar like substance for protection from weather rot. Running rigging was left untreated as it was easily replaced hen worn.
As to actual scale sizes more than actual sizes I feel it’s important to see what looks good on the model and then make them uniformly sized. One size for .01 through .013 and so on.
 
clogger said:
So Am I correct in now converting it to mm by multiplying 2 (pouce) by 27.07mm which would give 54.14?
Then divide this answer (54.14) by Pi (I use 3.14) to get the Diameter which would give 17.24mm? and at 1/36 scale is 0.47mm.

The only other question was do modellers need to be so precise with the scale rope needed to be sourced? Or can one just make generalisations?
Click to expand...
Exactly.

When I was doing my own ropes I was able to achieve the 0.05mm diameter increments (0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6...) so I round all calculated values in such manner
 
I’ve found it difficult to repeatedly make rope the same dimension on the rope walk. Too many variables so I make a range of diameters to use as one size. Also as it’s said by many “do what you like and what looks correct”
 
Will @ Trilogy said:
To answer you question of rigging colors. Standing rigging was black because of the fact I was mostly treated with a tar like substance for protection from weather rot. Running rigging was left untreated as it was easily replaced hen worn.
As to actual scale sizes more than actual sizes I feel it’s important to see what looks good on the model and then make them uniformly sized. One size for .01 through .013 and so on.
Click to expand...
I should add, don’t do the running rigging in white. Aesthetically it just doesn’t look right on a model and I don’t think it is accurate. Something more on the manila side.
 
clogger said:
Hi
I’m scratch building Le Rochefort 1787 to 1/36 scale following Adrian Sorolla’s instruction book. I’m looking at the recommended rope sizes for this scale ship, 1/36.
See photos attached.
View attachment 313520View attachment 313521View attachment 313522

Under 1/36 scale the rope circumferences are given I think.
Question
Do I need to source all the different sizes as specified?
What colour ropes do I need? Which would be Black? which would be Tan?
I’m confused as to the reference to the ‘pouches’ inches in English I think. Take the first line giving the recommended size for the Hoist Tackle as 4,5 pouches, inches?
4.5 inches is 114.3mm
114.3mm at 1/36 scale is 3.17mm i think?
At 1/36 scale its given as 1.07mm??
Am I being stupid??
Click to expand...
1.A pouce is a French inch. A french inch is 27.1mm. An English inch is 25.4mm. Note the difference, it makes a difference.
2. The rope CIRCUMFERENCE is given in French pouce. Divide the number given in the table circumference by 3.1416 to get the rope diameter in French pouce. Multiply by 27.1 to get the diameter in mm; note this is the French diameter. Divide by 25.4 to get the English/American diameter in inches; the English inch number will be larger than the French inch number. Note, this is the diameter of the full size rope/line on a full size ship; it is
not the model rope/line diameter.
3. Divide the English inch number by 36 and you will have the diameter of the line/rope (in American inches as measured by a dial micrometer, 0.001" increments) that should go on the model. Note, there can be 20 to 40 different size lines on a real ship and probably as many different lines on a model. Usually, you have to make your own lines for any diameter larger than 0.01inches.
4. Contrary to popular opinion, there were NO white lines on a real ship prior to about 50 years ago when cotton lines became popular. Lines made from hemp (any natural fiber other than cotton) were yellowish in color (a mix of about 85% yellow ochre and 15% raw umber). There were also very few black lines. The black would have had to be put on as black paint using boiled linseed oil as the solvent medium (and there was very little of that, not to mention that it was essentially water soluble and lasted only a short period of time). Standing rigging was coated with pine tar; notably with Stockholm pine tar. High grades of pine tar were a light brown/tan in color. Lower grades of pine tar were a dark brown; Stockholm tar (made in the area around Stockholm, Sweden because of the high quality of the raw pine pitch from the local trees) was the highest quality to be had. It was up to the captain to buy the tar he wanted and could afford. There was no black tar (that was usable). Black tar would have meant that the raw pine pitch had been overheated and burnt during the manufacturing process and was thus made useless. Running rigging is best colored light tan. The tar would have been applied to the natural fibers in several steps during the construction of the rope on the rope walk. You can use a rainbow of light tan colors. Better to not use just one color. You would have lines of a hundred shades of tan on a real ship.
5. Bottom line: you will need about 20 different sizes of line colored from light tan to dark brown.
 
All great info. Wish this was posted back in March when I had a problem with the USS Constitution by Mantua. I was able to get the actual USS Constitution rigging dimensions from the museum web site in Boston and convert to mm thread diameter. The real difficulty was there was no consistency in the rigging thread diameters from the various sources purchased. When I purchased from various sources example 0.5mm diameter thread they were all different. Does anyone have a recommended source? Also experimented with different materials ie blends nylon, polyester, hemp, cotton etc. The nylon and the hemp unraveled during installation. Is there a preference in material by modelers?
 
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