USS Bonhomme Richard (1765) Full Scale (Cad Portion) Joseph H

JosephH

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Originally this was to be a 74 gun french ship but after several discussions here and via back channels I have decided instead to do the Bonhomme Richard. I have left the previous discussions up as there is some valuable insight in them and continued further down
 
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JosephH

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ok so now I have to do some math. a french foot is 12.78894 inch so I have to figure out how to convert french feet and inches to Imperial. for example if I have something 8" french how to convert it to 8" Imperial for my cad
 

JosephH

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ok so it seems a Pounce is the french equivelent of the english inch and so best I can figure is 1 pounce = 1.066 in

which thus means my Keel which is listed as 19" deep and 15" sided would convert to 20.254" deep and 15.99" Sided
 

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Very interesting subject and I will follow this topic with big interest....... Great
 

JosephH

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I just wished the Timbering plans I ordered were digital from the cad drawings would make it more accurate and easier to bring in the outlines from the cad than measuring the drawings with my verneer calipers but C'est La Vie
 

JosephH

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so I am pissed off things aren't coming out correctly. for some reason the dimensions given in the books and the timbering plans arent matching. So I need to go through the books again and try to find some important dimensions mainly the ones for the sternpost I need the height and to try and figure out where the transoms start and their spacing. what I thought i found on th transom thickness doesnt match the timbering plans and the sternpost on the timbering plans are like a foot or more shorter. things get fairly easy once I get the backbone and the hull lofted as most stuff after that is all standard and fits to set heights and widths. since this is the most important part of the ship I need to get it correct and choose one direction or the other to go. either I can find all the info I need for drawing it up in the 4 volume set or I use the timbering drawings and some dividers and draw according to them.
 

Olivers Historic Shipyard

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Hello Joseph,

to create the cad in according with the plan ist very dangerous. My plan has a lot of errors, thats why i have done the cad drawings. For me was the secret use the minimum input from the plan. Only one sheet. The top view and the front sections form my planset from the hull doesn´t match. I select a "truth" and took all my measuerpint from this view. Unfortunatly its true. More informationy you have, more confusion you get. Especially when a subject e well detailled like the 74-gunner.
For my opinion there are working a lot of persons on the drawings. JB in the center. But there is not qualitiy control betwen the drawings.
 

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Hello

Apart from the two oldest monographs, Jean Boudriot has drawn all the other monographs alone. There are 18 in all.
I fear that Joseph's approach will not succeed because he relies on drawings whose scale is not rigorous, the dimensions of the pieces are not related to the tables of scantlings, the design is questionable in many ways, etc.
Building a 3D model of a ship of this era is extremely complicated and requires much knowledge about French shipbuilding of the eighteenth century.
I, for my part, drew eleven complete monographs in CAD in 2D with parts in 3D. It takes between three and five years to complete the project in a credible way to avoid criticism and remarks. The monograph of the galley "La Fleur de Lis" required thirteen years of research and drawing, not continuously but certainly by working very often.
It often happens that people come to me to create they own monograph, so far, and since 25 years, none has come to lead because of the complexity of this work and the huge amount of historical information needed to create a set of credible plans.
I wish Joseph courage and tenacity to reach the end of his project, it is a long and hard task.

GD
 

JosephH

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Thanks guys and you are right Gerald this is a pain for me. I am very anal about accuracy but living here in the middle of the us in a small town makes research almost impossible. However since it is 4 am here and I couldn't sleep trying to figure out where to go next, I think I came up with a solution that might work. Instead of trying to exactly recreate a french 74 gun which as you said would be almost impossible because of scantlings etc. I do have a British 74 I had been gathering reference for and even have the ships contract and with Steele and others there are a lot of scantling tables out there for stuff may be missing in the contract. So why not just do a 74 gun in the french style. some of the British ships were french built. but why not use the dimensions and stuff I have plenty of documentation on and do a generic ship of the period but with french construction methods.

That way I have the relevent documentation for the vessel and Jean's books for the construction methods. and since it is a generic period fantasy vessel the purists wont go nuts and those wanting to build a ship of the period wont have to worry about all kinds of research for accuracy.
 

Olivers Historic Shipyard

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It very easy to hunt errors and failures in a planset. In a complexe composition you will find it. For me a monograph is an artwork. I know that i never will get the skill to complete such a complexe work. My first steps on CAD with a ship shows me my personel limit and what great invest of time it is to create um project like this. It´s simple to copy and paste the knowledge from big names, but serious research for a own new project is more than this. The knowledge, the research, to find credible sources, is a big barrier and my limit.
 

JosephH

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yea but you guys have it a little easier than people like me. you live close enough to the major places to research. My problem is not the cad I been using solidworks since the beginning. I just want to take a nice set of ship plans and create a full interactive 3D model for modellers wanting to build the ships.

All I need is a good DXF of a profile that is accurate and I can goto town. the problem I am having is the french ships I am trying to do are from plansheets that have skewed over time due to humidity etc that i had then scanned in with large format scanner to try and trace. then I am finding that the dimensions dont match the scantlings etc.

I love your catia work it looks great I just wished I could find a decent french ship to do the same with
 

JosephH

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Like here is a le rhone engine I did I had a lot of the factory drawings at my disposal just like have the complete bath shipyard microfilm for the fletcher class destroyer and also many microfilm for WWI and WWII aircraft. but ships harder to come by the info for early sailing shipsLe Rhone Exploded View.JPG
 

JosephH

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Ok Guys due to some great input from everyone it would be really impossible to create a truely accurate ship as I wanted. Therefore I will create a ship where there is still so much controversy as to what it was really like that I cant be wrong nor right. It will still be of french design using one of the Monographs by Jean Boudroit
the Bonhomme Richard. This way I can still do a nice 3D model showcasing french Building techniques and also do a ship where I can take a few liberties.

I know some may say various points on accuracy but I have decided just to do this one as it has some mystery to it.

I have begun drawing up the Keel then will work on the general outlines just for a guide and go from there. I didnt start another thread as there is some valuable discussion in this one that others may be interested in. instead I just changed the name of it
 

JosephH

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So I almost got the backbone drawn up and have the drawings in the background just for reference. I am very happy as the dimensions he listed in his monographie are matching up very well with the drawings. This means the drawings I have for the keel etc at least has almost no paper warpage. so I am finally happy I found a ship where the dimensions are close enough to the drawings that I can use the drawings for missing measurements and be within 1/32 to 1/16" at full scale which the men building the ships couldnt be that spot on so we are good to go. I will be able to use the station files I made for the 74 gun as I hadnt added dimensions yet to the planes. the big difference is this ship has 10" thick timbers instead of 12 1/2 and the spacing is 6" rather than 5. so I will just redraw the stations and get my new dimensions for my planes.
BonhommeRichard-001.jpg
 

JosephH

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I’m watching this, for sure a!
thanks Doc I am locating the stations now the thing with this one is it has cant frames in the fwd part just after station 6 they start. Everything has been going awesome tonight so far so I am feeling really good about this one. lol til gerald comes and ruins my day again hahaha. naw theres so much mystery on this ship that no matter what I do I cant be wrong or right only a good facsimile of what it was like. and Jean Boudroit did nice on the monographie showing what he could and couldn't find so if HE couldn't find it then I can pretty much go by his comments until they find the ship and do some archeology on it.
 

JosephH

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So I got the frames set, however to match the frame layout the spacing can vary from 6 to 10 inches which is to be common so as to match the gunports so they dont have to cut as much timber away. I will do some dimensioning and see if I can find an average


BonhommeRichard-002.jpg
 

JosephH

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so it seems 9" is the common spacing so moving everything to match and this is full scale at something like 1/48 you'll never notice it
 

JosephH

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Ok everything is equally spaced at 9 inches and seems to line up properly. I am wondering when he said 6 inches if it was a transpose error cause 9" seems spot on with 10" frames

I am heading to bed I have 2/3 the dimensions copied to notepad will finish them in the morning and then start making all my station planes. this is really going good right now (fingers crossed)
 
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