Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]

I often wonder why some people buy kits…lol. If you go down this road, of making everything yourself, you might as well use plans and buy materials. As you will end up making everything anyway.
I remember getting into wood working and buying a table saw, miter saw, band saw, router, scroll saw, jig saw, circular saw, drill press, router table, belt sander, drum sander, etc., etc. , then came the shop vac, air filtration, air compressor, nail gun, brad gun, and then I was buying saw blades, drill bits, Forstner bits, cutters, dado blades, files, sandpaper…and on and on and on…I could list stuff for days.
Now I find out people buy miniature equipment to build ship models? Smacking my head! Not sure I want to go down the equipment road again in miniature! I have plenty of hand tools for modeling. I’m on my 3rd ship only using hand tools, and I am not sure I want to build enough ships to justify special equipment for it. I am eyeing the wooden airplanes next.
But everyone has their own path… ;)
 
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dockattner said:
Hi Marc,

There are some YouTube videos if you search for Domanoff - but they were less helpful than I needed them to be (having said that I did make rope by the end of the day). Like many things I have come across in model ship construction there is an unspoken assumption: you know a little about this subject so here's what you need to know next to up your game. For example, I learned today why left and right hand twists matter when building up ropes; but the instructions assume you know why it matters as the ante to get in the game. It sounds like I'm complaining but I'm not - I have accepted the learning curve problem as a problem to overcome not whine about.

I have attached the Domanoff .pdf instructions and that has some formulas but I found that list unhelpful because I'm not starting up a rope making business nor did I want to invest in that level of inventory. I have three sizes of Gutermann poly at 120 / 70 / 30. In my naiveté I'm thinking I can get by with those three sizes in my stockpile. We'll see. I don't even know what my goal sizes are yet. I'll message you another guide.
Click to expand...
Thanks Paul Much appreciated I have a rope machine and are now experimenting with it making ropes.
I have the Vasa as a kit , the Sergal one, to build later and are following your build log with much interest.
The detail is very well done and am looking forward to see the finished product. When I built the Endeavour I had 7 rope sizes and 4 block sizes. But will be following what you end up as rope sizes and block sizes for when I get round to doing the Vasa.
 
dockattner said:
In an oddly satisfying way I spent most of a day working faithfully on my ship without really accomplishing anything. Today I stumbled and bumbled my way into the world of scale rope-making. Frankly, I have read lots of posts about the rigging process but I have learned virtually nothing because the language is completely foreign to me. I know I need to have lines of different sizes but that's about it at this point.

But I do now own a Domanoff ropewalk (and a serving machine) and have selected a base color for my rigging. The ropes on the Vasa were all hemp so I picked a 'hempy' color from Gutermann. As has been mentioned on other Vasa build logs, it would seem that little if any tar was used on the standing rigging but I will try to add some color variation just for the sake of visual interest.

While I won't be ready to do any rigging for quite some time I thought that making ropes would be something I could do every once in a while as a diversion... Anyway, that's my logic for taking up this subject now.

I figured out how to make different sizes of rope but will need to fill in some gaps once I determine what sizes I will need and in what quantities.

View attachment 242684

Here are a few examples of where I am after a day of trying to figure out how to do this job... The brown cable on the left is not the right color - just using up thread that I ordered trying to find the color I had in mind (color samples on websites are pretty worthless). Anyway, the two smaller ropes on the right are the color I will use.

View attachment 242685

I also was inspired by @mati.n and his rigging work but I was not able to replicate his tarred ropes. I wasn't surprised by this failure - I just need to figure out what I did wrong and keep trying... This is what I ended up with:

View attachment 242686

Other than practicing more, I also need to determine what sizes of rope to use on my 1:65 early 17th century ship model and in what quantities - and as time allows start making some rope.

I am open to your suggestions and tips for rope-making!
Click to expand...
Paul, good afternoon. We have a website, according to which you can calculate the size of the rigging for the ship model. This is not ideal, but it can be used for understanding. https://www.goldenhind.ru/calc_2.php
You will need a google translator. Insert the epoch, the diameter of the mainmast in meters and the scale into the initial data.
After that, the site will give you 2 tables. The first for standing rigging. It looks like this: https://www.goldenhind.ru/calc_2.php
Second table for running rigging

Êàëüêóëÿòîð äëÿ ðàñ÷åòà òàêåëàæà ïàðóñíûõ êîðàáëåé.

Êàëüêóëÿòîð äëÿ ðàñ÷åòà âåëè÷èí òàêåëàæà ïàðóñíûõ êîðàáëåé.
www.goldenhind.ru www.goldenhind.ru
The main gear is in these tables. I use them. Hope this helps you.
 
dockattner said:
In an oddly satisfying way I spent most of a day working faithfully on my ship without really accomplishing anything. Today I stumbled and bumbled my way into the world of scale rope-making. Frankly, I have read lots of posts about the rigging process but I have learned virtually nothing because the language is completely foreign to me. I know I need to have lines of different sizes but that's about it at this point.

But I do now own a Domanoff ropewalk (and a serving machine) and have selected a base color for my rigging. The ropes on the Vasa were all hemp so I picked a 'hempy' color from Gutermann. As has been mentioned on other Vasa build logs, it would seem that little if any tar was used on the standing rigging but I will try to add some color variation just for the sake of visual interest.

While I won't be ready to do any rigging for quite some time I thought that making ropes would be something I could do every once in a while as a diversion... Anyway, that's my logic for taking up this subject now.

I figured out how to make different sizes of rope but will need to fill in some gaps once I determine what sizes I will need and in what quantities.

View attachment 242684

Here are a few examples of where I am after a day of trying to figure out how to do this job... The brown cable on the left is not the right color - just using up thread that I ordered trying to find the color I had in mind (color samples on websites are pretty worthless). Anyway, the two smaller ropes on the right are the color I will use.

View attachment 242685

I also was inspired by @mati.n and his rigging work but I was not able to replicate his tarred ropes. I wasn't surprised by this failure - I just need to figure out what I did wrong and keep trying... This is what I ended up with:

View attachment 242686

Other than practicing more, I also need to determine what sizes of rope to use on my 1:65 early 17th century ship model and in what quantities - and as time allows start making some rope.

I am open to your suggestions and tips for rope-making!
Click to expand...

Hi Paul,
Good trial! For the exact diameter of the rigging ropes I am using the trial-error method (more from the latter) and I am building up a spreadsheet for the results - say 3x2 threads of #100 creates this diameter and so on. I am not using any calculation beforehand and the resulting diameter depends also on the actual weight I am using in the rope climb (1...4). Mostly I am using DMC crochet cotton of which I could not find anything smaller than #100 so the thinnest rope I can make (3x1) is about 0.35mm dia. What material are you using for the 0.26mm and 0.19mm ropes? A year ago or so I managed to get some #140 Egyptian cotton but it is not strong enough for my rope climb and it breaks. It might be used on the Domanoff planetary though but I am jut guessing.
János
 
Jimsky said:
@dockattner Sorry for the off-top

I am well aware of those cutters but yet have never come across the tutorial. Do you have any links or videos to share with our members? That would be great, but don't put it here. This is VASA dedicated build log. We have a section for tools\techniques

Tools, Lathes, Mills, Jigs and Techniques

This forum has combined all the Topics for Tools, Lathes, Mills, Jigs and Techniques
shipsofscale.com
Click to expand...
Jimski, I did
 
Alexander74 said:
Paul, good afternoon. We have a website, according to which you can calculate the size of the rigging for the ship model. This is not ideal, but it can be used for understanding. https://www.goldenhind.ru/calc_2.php
You will need a google translator. Insert the epoch, the diameter of the mainmast in meters and the scale into the initial data.
After that, the site will give you 2 tables. The first for standing rigging. It looks like this: https://www.goldenhind.ru/calc_2.php
Second table for running rigging

Êàëüêóëÿòîð äëÿ ðàñ÷åòà òàêåëàæà ïàðóñíûõ êîðàáëåé.

Êàëüêóëÿòîð äëÿ ðàñ÷åòà âåëè÷èí òàêåëàæà ïàðóñíûõ êîðàáëåé.
www.goldenhind.ru www.goldenhind.ru
The main gear is in these tables. I use them. Hope this helps you.
Click to expand...
Sasha, thank you very much for this helpful tool. I look forward to trying it out in the days ahead. I appreciate your assistance!
 
Ladies and Gentleman, please remember this is the thread for Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini, Tools-related discussion should be moved to the appropriate section on our forum.

Tools, Lathes, Mills, Jigs and Techniques

This forum has combined all the Topics for Tools, Lathes, Mills, Jigs and Techniques
shipsofscale.com

Many thanks for understanding
 
Jimsky said:
Ladies and Gentleman, please remember this is the thread for Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini, Tools-related discussion should be moved to the appropriate section on our forum.

Tools, Lathes, Mills, Jigs and Techniques

This forum has combined all the Topics for Tools, Lathes, Mills, Jigs and Techniques
shipsofscale.com

Many thanks for understanding
Click to expand...
Jimski, Paul asked for help in sizing the rigging for his model. I gave a link to the table. Did you have to put it in another section and give Paul a link?
 
janos said:
Hi Paul,
Good trial! For the exact diameter of the rigging ropes I am using the trial-error method (more from the latter) and I am building up a spreadsheet for the results - say 3x2 threads of #100 creates this diameter and so on. I am not using any calculation beforehand and the resulting diameter depends also on the actual weight I am using in the rope climb (1...4). Mostly I am using DMC crochet cotton of which I could not find anything smaller than #100 so the thinnest rope I can make (3x1) is about 0.35mm dia. What material are you using for the 0.26mm and 0.19mm ropes? A year ago or so I managed to get some #140 Egyptian cotton but it is not strong enough for my rope climb and it breaks. It might be used on the Domanoff planetary though but I am jut guessing.
János
Click to expand...
Hello Janos,

First of all - I LOVE your work.

To answer your question the 0.19 and 0.26 is not made up rope - it is the thread itself at #120 and #70. The Gutermann poly thread, however, is made of fibers so if you magnify it enough it actually looks like right hand (Z) rope.

As for sizing, your approach is basically what I did yesterday. I just started making ropes using different source threads and then measured what I ended up with.

But maybe you can answer a question for me (really this question is for everyone) - I see notations like 1x3 and 2x3. Does this mean (1x3) that three single threads went into making the rope, and (2x3) that the threads were doubled and then made into the rope (so six threads appear in the final product)?

I was only using single threads - and if I wanted to make a bigger rope I used the rope I just made as the "thread" for the larger rope but now wrapping in the opposite direction. Is this right?

I'm not sure how I would get a double thread onto my continuous ropewalk but I do have a vertical ropewalk for making cables that I could use if that is what I am supposed to be doing (multiple threads right from the beginning).

Thanks for any guidance anyone could offer. Rope-making is kinda fun!
 
dockattner said:
Hello Janos,

First of all - I LOVE your work.

To answer your question the 0.19 and 0.26 is not made up rope - it is the thread itself at #120 and #70. The Gutermann poly thread, however, is made of fibers so if you magnify it enough it actually looks like right hand (Z) rope.

As for sizing, your approach is basically what I did yesterday. I just started making ropes using different source threads and then measured what I ended up with.

But maybe you can answer a question for me (really this question is for everyone) - I see notations like 1x3 and 2x3. Does this mean (1x3) that three single threads went into making the rope, and (2x3) that the threads were doubled and then made into the rope (so six threads appear in the final product)?

I was only using single threads - and if I wanted to make a bigger rope I used the rope I just made as the "thread" but now wrapping in the opposite direction. Is this right?

I'm not sure how I would get a double thread onto my continuous ropewalk but I do have a vertical ropewalk for making cables that I could use if that is what I am supposed to be doing (multiple threads right from the beginning).

Thanks for any guidance anyone could offer. Rope-making is kinda fun!
Click to expand...
Paul is all right. 1x3, 2x3 and beyond is suitable for a vertical cable car. 1, 2 and beyond is the number of threads in one track. By adding strands to the track, you get an increase in the thickness of the final rope. 3 is the number of tracks. It doesn't change. There are three-strand, four-strand and core ropes. As far as I know, in a cable from Domanov, which is infinite, the thickness of the final rope can only be changed by increasing the thickness of the original thread. Sorry to interfere.
 
dockattner said:
Hello Janos,

First of all - I LOVE your work.

To answer your question the 0.19 and 0.26 is not made up rope - it is the thread itself at #120 and #70. The Gutermann poly thread, however, is made of fibers so if you magnify it enough it actually looks like right hand (Z) rope.

As for sizing, your approach is basically what I did yesterday. I just started making ropes using different source threads and then measured what I ended up with.

But maybe you can answer a question for me (really this question is for everyone) - I see notations like 1x3 and 2x3. Does this mean (1x3) that three single threads went into making the rope, and (2x3) that the threads were doubled and then made into the rope (so six threads appear in the final product)?

I was only using single threads - and if I wanted to make a bigger rope I used the rope I just made as the "thread" for the larger rope but now wrapping in the opposite direction. Is this right?

I'm not sure how I would get a double thread onto my continuous ropewalk but I do have a vertical ropewalk for making cables that I could use if that is what I am supposed to be doing (multiple threads right from the beginning).

Thanks for any guidance anyone could offer. Rope-making is kinda fun!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comment, Paul!
As to your question - and you already answered it. I am using a 3 headed vertical rope making machine from Domanoff (not the planetary one) so the number 3 refers to the number of heads (the fourth is also available on it but I am not using it). And the other number (1 or 2 in this case but it can also be more) to the number of threads per head. So a 3x2 arrangement means 3x2=6 threads to make the rope. Obviously a thicker rope can be done on different ways - ie. 3x2 #40 would result in the same diameter rope than 3x3 #60 (the numbers here are only examples, not the correct ones, as I am upstairs and haven't got my spreadsheets here). The higher the number of the threads the bigger the job is to make the preparations of course and the resulting rope would also look somewhat different. Matter of personal choice which arrangement one would prefer.
Another matter whether we are using poly or cotton threads. Poly is not sensitive to humidity but it stretches. Cotton does not stretch but is sensitive to changes in humidity. I prefer cotton (there are other choices too) but the sagging due to humidity changes is enormous. There is an annual 2 days exhibition in Sydney (except last year because of the WuFlu) close to the water and at the end of the second day the sagging of all lines is so big that I have to apologise to the visitors that the ships really look different in my cupboard at home!
I haven't got a planetary rope maker but I assume you can use different number of threads per 'head' there too, you just have to prepare different bobbins with different number of threads on them. You just have to have a huge number of bobbins...
Otherwise I am doing the same as you, using single threads for lines smaller than 0.35 mm dia. The thing is, unfortunately, that the structure of the DMC thread is not that nice, what I saw on your picture and I thought that those were also 'made' ropes.
Have fun!
János
 
Reading the last many posts regarding the rigging thread - for me it's decided - I will just purchase pre-made ropes as I have done for my last three builds.
The needed attention to details; width, right or left, type of threads, colors, and most importantly How to Properly use a machine -- yikes! -

Kudos to you Paul and to the other great builders on this site that have taken the plunge creating ropes - I won't be able to reach that altitude lol...
So paul what about blocks??? kit provided blocks are arguably the worst inclusions in any kit IMHO...

Cheers,
 
oldflyer said:
So paul what about blocks??? kit provided blocks are arguably the worst inclusions in any kit IMHO...
Click to expand...
I thought, blocks issue has been resolved since Dry-Dock was opened ;) Have you check the store lately?

drydockmodelsandparts.com

Dry-Dock Models & Parts

Dry - Dock Models & Parts is providing high quality ship model fittings and parts
drydockmodelsandparts.com drydockmodelsandparts.com
 
oldflyer said:
Reading the last many posts regarding the rigging thread - for me it's decided - I will just purchase pre-made ropes as I have done for my last three builds.
The needed attention to details; width, right or left, type of threads, colors, and most importantly How to Properly use a machine -- yikes! -

Kudos to you Paul and to the other great builders on this site that have taken the plunge creating ropes - I won't be able to reach that altitude lol...
So paul what about blocks??? kit provided blocks are arguably the worst inclusions in any kit IMHO...

Cheers,
Click to expand...
C'mon John! Where's your sense of adventure! You already make 80% of what you put on your ship by hand! Why not rope too?

I think you're missing out on a great opportunity to mindlessly fritter your life away sitting under a 40 watt bulb in your damp basement taking 2000 mg of Vitamin D daily since you haven't been outside in months hunched over your too low work table trying to turn thread so thin you can't even feel it into cable laid rope at precisely 1.14 mm because that's what the table from Mondfeld says...

WAIT, HOLD ON A SECOND! THAT'S ME!!!! AAARGH!
 
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Jimsky said:
I thought, blocks issue has been resolved since Dry-Dock was opened ;) Have you check the store lately?

drydockmodelsandparts.com

Dry-Dock Models & Parts

Dry - Dock Models & Parts is providing high quality ship model fittings and parts
drydockmodelsandparts.com drydockmodelsandparts.com
Click to expand...
I'm a frequent flyer at Zoltan's store, right @zoly99sask ? He just packaged up blocks for me earlier this week...
 
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