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Hey Paul,
I'm extremely interested in this technique for "tarring" hemp line. Would you be willing to share the product and your process?
Cheers.
Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]
- Thread starter dockattner
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I'm extremely interested in this technique for "tarring" hemp line. Would you be willing to share the product and your process?
Cheers.
Hello Paul,
For standing rigging( light tarred and in combination with hull "color"), D looks as right choice...
For standing rigging( light tarred and in combination with hull "color"), D looks as right choice...
I was very impressed of the craftsmanship level and accurateness of your work, especially how cool and very close to B.Landstrem drwngs You reproduced fastenings of hull plating ... Great!
Than, still under impression of your work I went to check how it looks like on real Vasa( archeological findings/ results) in Vasa museum(all links were found in Vasa forum) and what did they do on 1:10 museum model ...
And I could see, that on real ship locations of all those fastening were quite ... chaotic!!!
if I could say like that
)) and on the 1:10 museum model they try to reproduce original fastenings location?
As I understood that it was as consequences of asymmetrical hull shape, frame locations, which were entire not parallel to each other and ... entire method of hull construction which was implemented when they built Vasa was very difficult to maintain symmetrical in our modern sense?
And look on the deck planking!
this is something funny, looks like they used wood residues for deck)) ... by the way ,it is very similar to Mery Rose decks plating !
But on the models we mostly see much more nice and ideal pictures , which is maybe not so historic accurate but much pleasure for eyes !))
Than, still under impression of your work I went to check how it looks like on real Vasa( archeological findings/ results) in Vasa museum(all links were found in Vasa forum) and what did they do on 1:10 museum model ...
And I could see, that on real ship locations of all those fastening were quite ... chaotic!!!
if I could say like that
)) and on the 1:10 museum model they try to reproduce original fastenings location?As I understood that it was as consequences of asymmetrical hull shape, frame locations, which were entire not parallel to each other and ... entire method of hull construction which was implemented when they built Vasa was very difficult to maintain symmetrical in our modern sense?
And look on the deck planking!
this is something funny, looks like they used wood residues for deck
)) ... by the way ,it is very similar to Mery Rose decks plating ! But on the models we mostly see much more nice and ideal pictures , which is maybe not so historic accurate but much pleasure for eyes !
))
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I second C/E.OMG those are great lines! I vote for C or E, because the appear slightly worn and weathered. D is too worn to match the appearance of your model. A & B look too new. However, new may be the look you are going for, Paul. Remember, Wasa never had a change to get worn rigging!
“D” is my vote
Thank you, friends, for sharing your thoughts. Generally speaking it seems you favor the darker tones so that is the direction I will head.
@Daniel20 - you mentioned you liked the sample that was the most homogenous and I certainly agree that is the way model ships have largely been presented. I am actually trying to create something less homogeneous (perhaps foolishly???):
@Jimsky - could you please clarify what you wrote? Is it a browner color that you are suggesting - or just darker? The picture you posted looks like Matt's rigging?
@DARIVS ARCHITECTVS - point taken on the conditions of the ropes - the 2000 meters the Vasa traveled would have left things in a like-new condition!
@Brewbrarian - the idea came from the majestic work of @mati.n though I have no idea if I am doing anything close to what he does technique wise. I am still experimenting but here is the approach I am using. The product I chose is a patina used in decoupage. I could not find it sold in the US (I suspect it is not considered a safe product by whatever agency gets to make those decisions) so I ordered it from Europe (ebay). The patina is cheap - the shipping is not:
With the rope in a glass jar I add a little bit of the patina and then use a paint brush to work the patina into the rope. I remove the rope and immediately wipe off excess patina and leave it all to dry for a few hours. I then use paint thinner (mineral spirits) on a rag to wipe off some of the patina until I like what it looks like. My goal is to leave more patina in the grooves than on the ridges. I am also experimenting with diluting the patina with turpentine. Sample A has only a bit of patina (mostly turpentine); B has more patina; C has even more patina; D is full strength patina; E is full strength patina then wiped down with mineral spirits.
Obviously I have not perfected this yet - and I may end up abandoning this idea if I can't reproducibly achieve what I have in mind. Having said that, I actually like line B for the running rigging. The patina adds a 'depth' to the rope that strikes my fancy. The question is: can I make something equally appealing for the standing rigging...
Again, my thanks to everyone who shared their vote!
@Daniel20 - you mentioned you liked the sample that was the most homogenous and I certainly agree that is the way model ships have largely been presented. I am actually trying to create something less homogeneous (perhaps foolishly???):
@Jimsky - could you please clarify what you wrote? Is it a browner color that you are suggesting - or just darker? The picture you posted looks like Matt's rigging?
@DARIVS ARCHITECTVS - point taken on the conditions of the ropes - the 2000 meters the Vasa traveled would have left things in a like-new condition!
@Brewbrarian - the idea came from the majestic work of @mati.n though I have no idea if I am doing anything close to what he does technique wise. I am still experimenting but here is the approach I am using. The product I chose is a patina used in decoupage. I could not find it sold in the US (I suspect it is not considered a safe product by whatever agency gets to make those decisions) so I ordered it from Europe (ebay). The patina is cheap - the shipping is not:
With the rope in a glass jar I add a little bit of the patina and then use a paint brush to work the patina into the rope. I remove the rope and immediately wipe off excess patina and leave it all to dry for a few hours. I then use paint thinner (mineral spirits) on a rag to wipe off some of the patina until I like what it looks like. My goal is to leave more patina in the grooves than on the ridges. I am also experimenting with diluting the patina with turpentine. Sample A has only a bit of patina (mostly turpentine); B has more patina; C has even more patina; D is full strength patina; E is full strength patina then wiped down with mineral spirits.
Obviously I have not perfected this yet - and I may end up abandoning this idea if I can't reproducibly achieve what I have in mind. Having said that, I actually like line B for the running rigging. The patina adds a 'depth' to the rope that strikes my fancy. The question is: can I make something equally appealing for the standing rigging...
Again, my thanks to everyone who shared their vote!
Hello @kirill4 ,I was very impressed of the craftsmanship level and accurateness of your work, especially how cool and very close to B.Landstrem drwngs You reproduced fastenings of hull plating ... Great!
Than, still under impression of your work I went to check how it looks like on real Vasa( archeological findings/ results) in Vasa museum(all links were found in Vasa forum) and what did they do on 1:10 museum model ...
And I could see, that on real ship locations of all those fastening were quite ... chaotic!!!
if I could say like that
As I understood that it was as consequences of asymmetrical hull shape, frame locations, which were entire not parallel to each other and ... entire method of hull construction which was implemented when they built Vasa was very difficult to maintain symmetrical in our modern sense?
And look on the deck planking!
this is something funny, looks like they used wood residues for deck
But on the models we mostly see much more nice and ideal pictures , which is maybe not so historic accurate but much pleasure for eyes !
Thank you for visiting my build log. Your work is legendary! Incidentally, I have plans to visit the Rijksmuseum when my wife and I are in Amsterdam in 2022...
Yes, I agree with you that the Vasa is a departure from the norm. As this is my first real build I was free from the constraints of "this is how we do this." I was simply attempting to create a faithful 'interpretation' of the actual ship. I was even messaged during the hull planking stage by a concerned fellow builder who (in the kindest possible way) suggested now would be a good time to start over before my poor efforts became irreversible (he still follows my build and often posts words of encouragement
).Anyway, I appreciate your keen observations.
Paul,
There is tip from high professional modeller D.Shevelev https://www.shipsofscale.com/gallery/dshevelev/french74/index.html ...
He used artistic oil paint, actually two colors only , diluted in oil...
More details could find here ,post 284 .... you could go trough his posts a little to see how it looks like https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=386214#p386214
There is tip from high professional modeller D.Shevelev https://www.shipsofscale.com/gallery/dshevelev/french74/index.html ...
He used artistic oil paint, actually two colors only , diluted in oil...
More details could find here ,post 284 .... you could go trough his posts a little to see how it looks like https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=386214#p386214
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Thanks Kirill,
Google Translator says the oil paint is diluted in 'liquid oil.' What do you think that means? Mineral spirits? Turpentine? Something else?
I didn't try his method exactly... somehow by my own experience I started to use acrylic paint to stain / paint ropes...and later on I found his advice, how to do it... and using artistic oil paints deluted in tick oil actualy works much better and with better results for model rigging purposes!
After oil polimerization, painted ropes became as sort of soft copper wire ,which is perfect for rigging, blocks stropping, rope coil imitation etc,etc...
After oil polimerization, painted ropes became as sort of soft copper wire ,which is perfect for rigging, blocks stropping, rope coil imitation etc,etc...
He used good quality tick oil ,as I understood
One more advantage of using artistic oil paints , more ...You could mix your own color exatly how You want your ropes must look like!
Acrylic artist paints( deluted with matt laquer and spirit) which I used for ropes painting, visualy could gives same effect , but it doesn't have good adhesion to thread, and could fall apart if you need extensive manipulate with it, and need to be a few times repainted...which is not conveniet at all
There are some "digests" condenced from his ( D.Shevelev)advises which I collected from various topics ,on a few forums ,when people asked him how he painted his models...
As you could see, in some case he used tick oil deluted with white spirit , or he used ready made liquid oil" Watco" ...I think it is brand of oil
As google translated frm russian:
"...
Good afternoon, Oleg! I dye white threads with artistic oil paints. I breed a half-liter can. Mixing a tube of paint with liquid oil - teak oil!
I add paint to the oil until the color of the test thread suits.
I have ready-made oil with white spirit.
specially did not dilute the oil. There was a ready-made liquid Watco.
Umber Leningradskaya is used for standing rigging.
On the runner, I add ocher to this paint..."
"...Standing dark gray-brown. The runner tried to bring it as close as possible to the color of the hemp. For this he mixed Leningradskaya umber with golden ocher. Again diluted with liquid teak oil. The advantages of the rigging dyed in this way are that it does not unravel with sweat and the thread has some rigidity.
I paint by pulling the thread through a can or a poured puddle of paint. Then I pull the thread several times through the HB glove and hang it to dry. You can use it every other day...."
As you could see, in some case he used tick oil deluted with white spirit , or he used ready made liquid oil" Watco" ...I think it is brand of oil
As google translated frm russian:
"...
Good afternoon, Oleg! I dye white threads with artistic oil paints. I breed a half-liter can. Mixing a tube of paint with liquid oil - teak oil!
I add paint to the oil until the color of the test thread suits.
I have ready-made oil with white spirit.
specially did not dilute the oil. There was a ready-made liquid Watco.
Umber Leningradskaya is used for standing rigging.
On the runner, I add ocher to this paint..."
"...Standing dark gray-brown. The runner tried to bring it as close as possible to the color of the hemp. For this he mixed Leningradskaya umber with golden ocher. Again diluted with liquid teak oil. The advantages of the rigging dyed in this way are that it does not unravel with sweat and the thread has some rigidity.
I paint by pulling the thread through a can or a poured puddle of paint. Then I pull the thread several times through the HB glove and hang it to dry. You can use it every other day...."
That's correct, it is Matt's rigging on his model. I like the color of his rigging. A bit redder and a bit darker yes.
I misunderstood where the lines were going to be used, so change my vote to D if this is for STANDING rigging. Even new, the lines would be dark from applied tar. For running rigging, my vote for C or E stands.
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I have 2 pints of real pine tar here. Maybe I could use it to stain the standing rigging for my ship build. It would smell proper, and get huge points for authenticity. 
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For the ropes, to gets points of authenticity, they have to be made from natural fibres such as manila hemp, hemp, coir, jute, and sisal.I have 2 pints of real pine tar here. Maybe I could use it to stain the standing rigging for my ship build. It would smell proper, and get huge points for authenticity.