Was hms victory’s stern closed at trafalgar

[Silentguns120]

So there are a good few paintings of hms victory at trafalgar with open stern gallerys so I’m wondering what evidence there is around to actually suggest that her stern was closed in and there were many 3 deckers built after trafalgar with open stern gallerys even into the 1820s


here Are some pictures all these were painted after her refit of 1803This one if from after the battle and depicts a open stern gallery1808 this one was made I think, It’s a painting of victory after trafalgar

 

[Bryian]

If you Google H.M.S Victory 1765 you can see multiple images of an open stern gallery.

 

[pugwash]

I'd be wary of using 'paintings' as a way to authenticate any ship from that period.
You only have to look at the depictions of Dolphins. Hard to believe when you consider every blue water sailor must have seen them regularly for centuries.
Artistic license covers a multitude of sins.

 

[Silentguns120]

I'd be wary of using 'paintings' as a way to authenticate any ship from that period.
You only have to look at the depictions of Dolphins. Hard to believe when you consider every blue water sailor must have seen them regularly for centuries.
Artistic license covers a multitude of sins.

I’m just wondering because are they actually certain that her stern was closed or is it more of a guess

 

[pugwash]

I think the ships 'book/log' must survive. Every farthing spent was recorded.
There are many of Victory's features (as she is now) which are debatable, but the general appearance is broadly authentic.
See the stern of 'Implacable', preserved and impressively hung on a wall at the NMM.
That fits the period nicely.

 

[Uwek]

The stern of the HMS Victory was changed during her great repair which was finished in 1803.

Reconstruction​

On her return to England, Victory was examined for seaworthiness and found to have significant weaknesses in her stern timbers. She was declared unfit for active service and left anchored off Chatham Dockyard. In December 1798 she was ordered to be converted to a hospital ship to hold wounded French and Spanish prisoners of war.

However, on 8 October 1799, HMS Impregnable was lost off Chichester, having run aground on her way back to Portsmouth after escorting a convoy to Lisbon. She could not be refloated and so was stripped and dismantled. Now short of a three-decked ship of the line, the Admiralty decided to recondition Victory. Work started in 1800, but as it proceeded, an increasing number of defects were found and the repairs developed into a very extensive reconstruction. The original estimate was £23,500, but the final cost was £70,933. Extra gun ports were added, taking her from 100 guns to 104, and her magazine lined with copper. The open galleries along her stern were removed; her figurehead was replaced along with her masts and the paint scheme changed from red to the black and yellow seen today. Her gun ports were originally yellow to match the hull, but later repainted black, giving a pattern later called the "Nelson chequer", which was adopted by most Royal Navy ships in the decade following the Battle of Trafalgar. The work was completed in April 1803, and the ship left for Portsmouth the following month under her new captain, Samuel Sutton.

HMS Victory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

British First Rate ship of the line 'Victory' (1765)

British First Rate ship of the line 'Victory' (1765). Dates of service, name changes, previous and next incarnations, dimensions, armament, commanders, officers and crewmen, actions, battles, sources

threedecks.org

Means, that all battles the Victory fought before she had open galleries.
and Trafalgar was the only battle she had the new closed stern

 

[pugwash]

 

[Silentguns120]

Thanks everyone

 

[Uwek]

So there are a good few paintings of hms victory at trafalgar with open stern gallerys so I’m wondering what evidence there is around to actually suggest that her stern was closed in and there were many 3 deckers built after trafalgar with open stern gallerys even into the 1820s

here Are some pictures all these were painted after her refit of 1803This one if from after the battle and depicts a open stern gall1808 this one was made I think, It’s a painting of victory after trafalgar

Hallo @Silentguns120
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[Silentguns120]

Hallo @Silentguns120
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

thanks also do you know who would’ve paid for the reconstruction of HMS Victory in 1801-1803

 

[Uwek]

thanks also do you know who would’ve paid for the reconstruction of HMS Victory in 1801-1803

I know only from three decks that the costs were the immense sum of 71 tsd pound stirling

 

[ENJAY49]

The stern of the HMS Victory was changed during her great repair which was finished in 1803.

Reconstruction​

On her return to England, Victory was examined for seaworthiness and found to have significant weaknesses in her stern timbers. She was declared unfit for active service and left anchored off Chatham Dockyard. In December 1798 she was ordered to be converted to a hospital ship to hold wounded French and Spanish prisoners of war.

However, on 8 October 1799, HMS Impregnable was lost off Chichester, having run aground on her way back to Portsmouth after escorting a convoy to Lisbon. She could not be refloated and so was stripped and dismantled. Now short of a three-decked ship of the line, the Admiralty decided to recondition Victory. Work started in 1800, but as it proceeded, an increasing number of defects were found and the repairs developed into a very extensive reconstruction. The original estimate was £23,500, but the final cost was £70,933. Extra gun ports were added, taking her from 100 guns to 104, and her magazine lined with copper. The open galleries along her stern were removed; her figurehead was replaced along with her masts and the paint scheme changed from red to the black and yellow seen today. Her gun ports were originally yellow to match the hull, but later repainted black, giving a pattern later called the "Nelson chequer", which was adopted by most Royal Navy ships in the decade following the Battle of Trafalgar. The work was completed in April 1803, and the ship left for Portsmouth the following month under her new captain, Samuel Sutton.

HMS Victory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

British First Rate ship of the line 'Victory' (1765)

British First Rate ship of the line 'Victory' (1765). Dates of service, name changes, previous and next incarnations, dimensions, armament, commanders, officers and crewmen, actions, battles, sources

threedecks.org

Means, that all battles the Victory fought before she had open galleries.
and Trafalgar was the only battle she had the new closed stern

Hi, Uwek, I just came across this topic;
I just finished 2 great books on Trafalgar, for anyone interested, they're "Nelson's Trafalgar", Roy Adkins, full of information on many aspects of life in the navy at the time, & "An Eyewitness to Trafalgar", Tom Pocock. Both have huge collections of letters by the seamen & officers who where there, English, French & Spanish, (some accounts a bit gruesome). Along with "blow by blow" accounts of the battle, fascinating reading.
But most interesting, for here, is a passage from a letter to home by an English sailor with Nelson; "the French ships are just like ours, black with YELLOW stripes"! My Victory will remain yellow (ochre), I think I'll go with the word of one who actually saw it, (trusting he wasn't color blind) despite what "science" says.
Another note, he also stated, (writing before Trafalger) that only when the gunports were opened, it produced the "Nelson chequer". So, from an eyewitness, yellow lids at Trafagar, not later.

 

[Uwek]

So there are a good few paintings of hms victory at trafalgar with open stern gallerys so I’m wondering what evidence there is around to actually suggest that her stern was closed in and there were many 3 deckers built after trafalgar with open stern gallerys even into the 1820s


here Are some pictures all these were painted after her refit of 180This one if from after the battle and depicts a open stern galler1808 this one was made I think, It’s a painting of victory after trafalgar

Hallo @Silentguns120
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY