Weldbond glue

[Roger Pellett]

For my current project, I have decided to switch from my usual Titebond to an archival quality glue. My (limited) understanding of glue technology is that Titebond glue is acidic.

Weldbond offers a line of PVA glues that are supposedly non-acidic. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

My confusion is that references here on SOS refer to Weldbond Universal Adhesive. When I look this up on the internet I’m offered Weldbond Multi Surface Adhesive. Are these the same, just rebranded?

Roger

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

Weldbond adhesive has a pH level between 4.5 and 5.5 (slightly acidic) according to the Weldbond FAQ and product safety data sheets Weldbond Safety Data Sheet

Titebond III pH 2.5-3.5
Titebond II pH 3.0
Titebond I pH 3.5-4.5

Being polyvinyl acetate - the acid is acetic which is volatile the vinegar smell

Weldbond -except for their creative advertising copy is probably identical to the white version of Titebond.

Lineco white neutral pH adhesive pH 7-9 but it is also polyvinyl acetate

I am fighting with the Google AI to find a pre-mixed polyvinyl alcohol product - the acetate mfg have bribed it too much .

 

[paul ron]

everyone is so concerned about archival these days, yet there are antique models and other crafted goods built way before anyone was concerned about archival methods n materials still in perfect condition.

visit a museum and tell me if anything there was fabricated using archival methods or materials? yes, we are doing restorations, but think about how old those items are? would archival made any difference? anything created using archival only has a short track record and certainly not enough to say its actually working. perhaps my great great grand kids will see if its actually proven itself.


archival? do you expect your models to live forever or just a life time? once im gone, i couldnt care less what happens to my creations. i create to make me happy, not anyone else. im sure after im dead, the clean out will include most of my "junk" in my workshop.... even if i used archival methods n materials.

nothing lasts forever! use whatever works best... not lasts longest.

thats my 2 cents n im sticking to it.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

I think this is a chasing unicorns sort of situation.
I am coming to the conclusion that a pre-mixed PV alcohol adhesive does to exist and that if it did - the strength is not competitive with PVacetate woodworking adhesives.

I think that the object of your quest is hide glue.
Premixed - contains urea:
Franklin - too watery for me
Old Brown - needs to be used warm - water bath something like 140-160 degrees for wood to wood
StewMac sells pe-mixed Fish glue

all are protein based - great food for microbes - short shelf life - store in fridge - need to check mfg date before buying

Hot pot hide glue - the water jacketed preset temp pot is an expense
there are about four grades of hide glue granules - the higher the number - the stronger to bond strength - the shorter the open time - the highest seems to have the danger of being so brittle that a physical shock will shatter the bond - not good.
There is a learning curve. Proven stability - see the NMM collection.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

everyone is so concerned about archival these days

Not so sure just who is this "everyone"?
Just how helpful is a belittling comment? the majority population is already indifferent to archival -
a key indicator - the unquestioning acceptance of 3D printed parts - when the the plastic that does it probably has a 10-20 year shelf life - at best.

 

[paul ron]

its not belittling, thats my opinion based on my experiance... take it or leave it.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

its not belittling, thats my opinion based on my experiance... take it or leave it.

Works for me - I think that GAIA (the equation that defines the biological infestation of Terra) will render any concerns about archival anything moot sooner than later. Archival is an interesting thought experiment - even if it doomed in reality.
Now kits and archival is probably a textbook example of .....

 

[paul ron]

this discussion has been going on for a long time.. im involved in oil painting, sculpting, photography, weaving n of course model building amongst a few others.

going digital photography vs analog n longevity vs archival. same is true for other crafts. archival has been a recent concern and i feel its become more of a business rather than a reach for actual longevity. it has no real track record to base any of it on. as you pointed out 3d modeling uses degrading materials, but archival is the buzz word being used more and more even in industry as a sales pitch along with sustainability.

ive seen kits advertised as archival, photo paper n mounting, film n chemicals n other materials; but does it mean it will last hundreds of years? absolutely not but yet they are more expensive.... that says what to you?

im sure this would make an interesting thread on its own.
sorry for hijacking this thread.

 

[Roger Pellett]

My opinion is that Purgatory does exist, except it’s on earth; the senior citizen warehouse/ assisted living center. At 83 years old this is always lurking. I, therefore, want my current ship model project to be my masterpiece incorporating the lessons that I’ve learned over the years.

I have grandchildren, and would like to build something that they can treasure, and yes, possibly have some value.

I don’t consider the term archival to be important but I don’t want to knowingly use materials that will decay inside of a glass case. That’s why I asked the question. Jaager’s opinion, that I trust is that Titebond is chemically similar to other commonly available wood glues. I think that I’ll use it.

Roger

 

[Y.T.]

everyone is so concerned about archival these days,

Really, who cares that their creations will last a bit longer before they decompose. I do not. Especially after I abandon this world. Then who cares?

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

this discussion has been going on for a long time.. im involved in oil painting, sculpting, photography, weaving n of course model building amongst a few others

Your response makes more sense with the knowledge that it has a broader origin than just ship modeling for you and that is a source of frustration from a high scam component. Having zero interest in kits after cutting my teeth on a Scientific kitsch kit and a yellow box semi scratch classroom, I was not aware that the advertising copy scam extended to ship model kits.
I know where Roger is coming from and being old school it is easy to forget that our focus on emulating what the 17thC and 18thC English shipyards did is not the common focus.
In that light it is not a high jacking but rather a warning about a real but not involved hazard.