What brand of Cyanoacrylate or superglue you use?

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Donnie

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Cyanoacrylate or superglue:
Has anyone had any good experience with CA Glue for wooden ship building? If so, what brand? My recent encounters with various brands such as Loctite Superglue and now Hobby Lobby brand (thick and thin) does not seem to work well with shipbuilding (wood). Now, what I experience is that the two wooden parts to bond (common wood types we use) the glue seems to soak into the wood, but never actually bonds. Either I need to change the brand, or I am not doing something right. Even if I hold the parts at least for a full minute if not longer. I let go - parts fall apart. So, it is always back to the white glue again.

Lastly, do you mind sharing what Brand and technique you use to bond two pieces of wood? For instance, I have NEVER had any success using CA glue only to glue the planking to the Hull.
 
DONNIE I REALLY DIS LIKE THE USING OF CA TO ME BAD STUFF IF IT GETS ON A PIECE OF WOOD YOU CAN NOT GET IT OUT, BUT SOMETIMES I HAVE TO USE IT LIKE ON THE ARMED LONG BOAT, AFTER USING MANY DIFFERENT KINDS I SWITCHED TO MERCURAY ADHESIVES (SUGESTED BY JIM) FOR BONDING MEDIUM I NEVER USE THE THIN STUFF, AND ALSO USE AN ACCELARATOR SPRAY BUT NOT TO MUCH IT WILL STREAK THE WOOD JUST A SLIGHT SPRAY, IF YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO TAKE IT APART I CAN POST THAT, LET ME KNOW. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE YOU AND YOURS DON
 
I use the Zap-It CA glue when I need things to set fast. I'll use the thick and the thin depending on the need, but the thin CA can run out of control if not used carefully. Instead of applying directly to the surface (which can get messy and bond fingers), I'll try to put out a tiny blob in my workspace and then use a splinter of wood to apply it exactly where I want it to keep from overdoing it.
I have noticed that CA mess on the ship can actually blend in quite well once a little Tung oil or varnish is applied, so I stress a little less when this happens now.
I've also started using more homemade applicator straws. There's a video somewhere on the forum, but I can't find it right now. Basically, you head a plastic q-tip at the center and pull gently apart to create ultra-thin capillary tubes. These are great for controlling the amount of CA coming out of your bottle.
For stuff where I don't need it to set so fast, I've landed on Tite-Bond PVA glue.
 
It's not the brand that is mostly likely your problem Donnie. It is the consistency. Model ship building requires GEL type CA. The brand really doesnt matter. My personal preference is Zap-A-Gap. But I also use Loctite Gel from Walmart. If you use the thin, liquid type it will just run all over the place and soak into the wood. Use GEL type CA as if they were nails. A dot here and a dot there and the wood will tack right down. I have used it on planking for many years. If you desire more strength you can apply your PVA white glue to the wood along with a dot of CA. The CA will tack the wood down and hold it while the PVA dries. For you guys that buy the product known as Zip-Kicker to accelerate the curing of CA glue - don't bother.. it is a sham. Super glue cures by moisture. Zip-Kicker is nothing more than water with some perfume in it. A small drop of water placed on the seam of a plank that has a drop of GEL CA will cure instantly.

The only time I have ever seen CA not stick was with an old bottle, it seems to lose its freshness over time. Always start with a fresh one and you will be good to go. Even those tiny little tubes they sell in Walmart work just fine.

I have heard of other people having problems with CA but I have never had any issues in all my years of model building whether it be plastic or wood. It only takes a tiny amount. The more you use, the longer it takes to cure.
 
Was reading popular science back in the 80's and this is what it had to say about it. CA is what is known in the chemical world as a monomer. It actually bonds by forming a layer 1 molecule thick between the surfaces it's holding together.

It works incredibly well on rubber. In the rc racing world it's common to cut a rubber tire in two and glue it back together with ca to make a tire narrower or wider etc. and you can immediately put it on and go racing. The gel and thicker types of CA have filler material that allows the glue to layer, so basically a molecule thick layer of ca, a layer of filler, another molecule thick layer of ca, another layer of filler etc.

It doesn't work very well on wood IMO, because it soaks in instead of making a layer on the surface, though the harder the wood the better it works. Then when you add more the CA won't stick to itself unless it's only a molecule thick, so the end result is often a big mess and nothing sticking together.

The point of explaining that is CA is definitely a case where less is more, and fitment is critical. Like brazing metal parts together with a torch having a clean surface that fits really well is a huge help. I try to keep that in mind when I reach for CA.

For me personally you add the above issues to the fumes which can cause breathing problems and eye irritation because the fumes bond to the moisture in your eyes, the wood wont sand or take finish afterward, and I pretty much consider the stuff to be the devil, but sometimes (all be it rarely IMO) it's the rite product. 99% of the time it's pva or epoxy, clamps, and patients for me.
 
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There never is just one right way to do anything in modeling. That is for sure. I have definitely heard of people having bad reactions to CA fumes and all that too. Perhaps I am just immune to it. I can only speak for what I know personally. I have built entire models with CA and never had an issue. But that is just me. One thing for sure, less is better like Jodie said. Small amounts is key. I even use CA with baking soda as a filler on plastic models. It sands perfectly and becomes crystal clear. Regarding finishes on wood - it will take paint and primer. If applied carefully it should not arrive on the finished side of the wood anyway. PVA and epoxy also has challenges with finishes. So in the end, I guess it is just up to the modeler and how one goes about it really.
 
Use Tarzans Grip Shockproof ( thickCS ) for metal to metal, small metal parts to deck/ hull etc
Use thin f40 Stika thin for point knots if nessessary
Never CA for wood to wood.

Otherwise its PVA for everyithing except veneer / thin decking where its contact adhesive & Epoxy for BITs or parts requiring strong stressed bond
 
Just some comments and observations.
We did a automation project for a GAF plant that made CA glues. On the bottling line you could see several different manufactures bottles being filled. So I would say that the only difference between CA glues is the thickness of the glue.

As I am just getting back into wood ship model building I have never used CA glue on a wood model and can not comment on its effectiveness.

I am a paper modeler and for this modeling PVA glues are used. From experience I can say that when properly applied PVA glues will bond in a matter of a few seconds. Proper application is to apply a very small amount of glue to each side of the joint. Allow it to dry for a short time (10 to 20 seconds) apply another small amount of glue and apply pressure to the joint. You must have the parts preformed and they must fit without a force applied to make them fit. As for the amount of glue to use if you are asking yourself if that is enough glue its probably too much. Of course PVA glues take a good 12 hours to achieve maximum bonding. Give this a try on some scrap wood you maybe surprised.

Jim Nunn
 
I am using the Gel version of the CA glue, sold by Bunnings (I looked up the type, it is Shelleys) in itself or in combination with PVA (Titebond II). It does not work on all types of wood though. And it definitely does not work as a second layer on itself, the surface has to be scraped or sanded back to clean wood.
János
 
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Donnie,
I have to agree with mrshanks. I have experienced the same challenges others have stated in this post. GEL CA then brought a smile to my face. It stays where you put it, which allows for very precis.e and delicate application. It dries very quickly, which is a good thing, as long as you are aware of that and execute your application accordingly. No accelerator needed.

I actually use Gorilla GEL CA. I will test another brand once I exhaust the 2 bottles of Gorilla GEL that I have.
 
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