HMS PANDORA 1:72 - Modelship Dockyard

Phoe, 6 days offline and a lot of pages to read, Heinrich. First the nice progress and then your struggle. I hope that got the right information and help to solve the problems.
Regards, Peter
Dear Peter - as you can see the response and advice that I have received from our members has been wonderful. I am sure that by heeding all the sound advice, I will prevail - even if it takes a major re-do.
 
Dear Friends. As I have just mentioned to @Peter Voogt Peter, your help and advice in my "hour of need" have been monumental. Thank you so much for your concern and suggestions - it is really appreciated. I am just using this week to rethink matters a little and regroup my thoughts. And then I also have to mention the excellent customer service and support that I have received from @wuxiaomeng Wuxi and @Modelship Dockyard Victor. We will soon be up and running; better and stronger than ever before.
 
Hello Heinrich,
I've had a lot of catching up to do since my last visit. Your progress is amazing despite all the problems and the odd setback. At the beginning of the build we already discussed the problem of wood/resin parts and gluing them together. I hope you will find a good solution. Despite all the little problems you are doing a great job and your work is fantastic and as the saying goes: There is a solution to every problem.
 
Dear Friends

I promised that I would post pictures of the mess I had made and here it is. If this helps to make prospective modelers more aware of what they need to be aware of and pay special; attention to, then it is mission accomplished.

Deck.jpg
The black line indicates where the starboard half of the deck sits higher than the Port Side. This is the result of the CA glue curing before the deck was fully pushed into position. When I encountered my other problems, I initially thought that this was the cause of all my problems, but subsequently, I am not so sure anymore - more on that a little bit later.

First two gunports.jpg
On the picture above and below the red arrows indicate where the inner planking protrudes beyond the bottom sill of the gunports. This is incorrect as the inner planking needs to line up with the bottom sill of the gunports. To me it made perfect sense that this was because the deck on the starboard side was sitting higher than it should.
Gunports 2.jpg

On the picture below the yellow line indicates the correct positioning of the inner planking relative to the gunports. Once more it is blatantly clear that my inner planking extends too far up.

Planking Line.jpg

However:

Measurements.jpg
When I measured the distance between the top of the upper deck and the top of the lower deck and compared these measurements to those on the Port Side, the differences were minimal. This is why I say that I am no longer sure that the inequality of deck heights is where the problem lies. To say that I am confused would be correct.

Joint lines.jpg
Lastly the yellow arrows point to the well below-par quality of my joinery. And again, I have to point out that this is not the kit's fault - it's all my own doing. The yellow circle indicates where the CA glue has seeped through the grain of the wood.

So, there you go - now you have all the gory detail of my futile attempts at an "accurate" build.

Your suggestions and possible solutions are more than welcome!
 
Hello Heinrich,
I see the dilemma you're in. Two questions, and a picture from your report. Red arrows, why didn't you apply wood glue there to stick the ceiling on? You could weigh it down with weights, with the resin parts at the bow and stern it would be possible to let the superglue seep into the gap a little to create a connection there as well, purely in theory, practice often looks different. As for the yellow circles, does the height here match the wooden beam and the resin parts? As for the superglue seeping through, this can be easily removed or neutralized by light scraping and you won't see anything later after painting. However, it can no longer be oiled.

IMG_1531.jpeg
 
Hi Heinrich
I am currently making a mess of this model myself but a couple of tips that may help I found that clamping the planks in place and then putting a couple of drops of thin CA on some paper and running a needle through it and running it down the back of the printed parts worked quite well it creeps in and seems to work
If you decide to remove and refit the deck I used two part epoxy on the printed parts to give me a good amount of time (still made a bit of a mess)
 
Is it off by the height of the waterway?
Hi Paul. Yes, it is, but that is purely coincidental. The waterway is supposed to extend above the deck. I have had a long chat with Wuxi now and the discrepancy is caused by a culmination of a lot of errors which I will explain in detail over the weekend. When we are done, we will have a beautiful tutorial for prospective builders.
 
Hello Heinrich,
I see the dilemma you're in. Two questions, and a picture from your report. Red arrows, why didn't you apply wood glue there to stick the ceiling on? You could weigh it down with weights, with the resin parts at the bow and stern it would be possible to let the superglue seep into the gap a little to create a connection there as well, purely in theory, practice often looks different. As for the yellow circles, does the height here match the wooden beam and the resin parts? As for the superglue seeping through, this can be easily removed or neutralized by light scraping and you won't see anything later after painting. However, it can no longer be oiled.

View attachment 437995
Hello my friend. I did apply PVA to all the wooden deck beams and CA to the resin parts. The issue is that the deck slopes down from the middle to the waterways so by only gluing the deck to the wooden beams you will not get a proper "sloping" fit. One mistake that I made is to glue the waterways to the deck before the whole installation. The decks should have been glued in first and then the waterways installed only afterwards. That way the individual parts that make up the waterways could be sanded and adjusted to create a proper fit.

As to the areas that you have indicated within the yellow circles - the level where wood meets resin is absolutely level with no protrusions. I obviously ran a sanding block over that to be sure, but that part wasn't even really necessary.
 
Hi Heinrich
I am currently making a mess of this model myself but a couple of tips that may help I found that clamping the planks in place and then putting a couple of drops of thin CA on some paper and running a needle through it and running it down the back of the printed parts worked quite well it creeps in and seems to work
If you decide to remove and refit the deck I used two part epoxy on the printed parts to give me a good amount of time (still made a bit of a mess)
Hi Roger. Welcome to my log - it's great to have a fellow Pandora builder here! Your advice is most welcome, and I will surely give it a try - both the paper and needle trick as well as a much slower-curing form of CA or epoxy glue. Looking at your progress, I don't see any mess - in fact I think your Pandora is coming together beautifully. Wuxi mentioned again tonight that Pandora is an expert kit that employs brand new construction techniques which, on the surface, sometimes seem counter intuitive. The key is to trust the accuracy of the design process and follow the instructions closely - far closer than what I have done! :)
 
Hi Paul. Yes, it is, but that is purely coincidental. The waterway is supposed to extend above the deck. I have had a long chat with Wuxi now and the discrepancy is caused by a culmination of a lot of errors which I will explain in detail over the weekend. When we are done, we will have a beautiful tutorial for prospective builders.
That is true (waterway on the deck with bulwarks built over the top of the waterway) - but I was in solving mode not troubleshooting mode. Whether the bulwarks sit on the waterway or next to the waterway - it will look the same. Of course there would likely be other issues downstream with my rather crude solution and it now seems you have a better remedy via the kit manufacturer...
 
Dear Heinrich, are you sure that you took the right planks for the bulwarks? Planks of this shape are used only outside for wales. The bulwark planks are straight. Look at the illustration from Anatomy of Pandora:

Pandora_46-47.jpg
 
That is true (waterway on the deck with bulwarks built over the top of the waterway) - but I was in solving mode not troubleshooting mode. Whether the bulwarks sit on the waterway or next to the waterway - it will look the same. Of course there would likely be other issues downstream with my rather crude solution and it now seems you have a better remedy via the kit manufacturer...
Paul, I understand perfectly why you asked that question and it's like you say - if problem solving was the main priority that would certainly have been a very good option. However, I need to wrap my head around the way these models are built - they are highly accurate kits, and it would be a shame if I could not exploit their full potential. Modelship Dockyard is working on yet another model which has the same build configuration as Pandora, so I think it is fair to say that we will see many more of these types of kits brought to market.
 
Is it the inner planking? If yes, it seems you are right. I looked at my illustration more closely and found similar planks too.
Hi Vladimir. Apologies for the late reply, my friend. Yes, I did use the correct planks - I would actually have been relieved if I had made mistake, because that would have been far easier to solve.

First Two layers.png
This illustration shows the planks that are used in the first (from the deck upwards) rows of inner planking.
 
Okiedokie friends

I will now try to explain at the hand of the discussions I had with Wuxi, what sins I have committed.

The first problem that Wuxi identified was that I first glued to the waterways to the deck - according to him, I should have installed the two deck halves first and then the waterways. That would have allowed me to custom - sand/shape the outer edge of each of the individual pieces that make up the waterways, separately ensuring the best possible fit. No problem with that, but then I would suggest a change to the instructions which first list the installation of the waterways and then the deck. Look at the numbering of the two pics below which follow each other directly in the instruction manual.

Waterways.png
Deck..png
This is the exact sequence in which the waterways are shown to be done first and then the deck. If it is supposed to be the other way around, these two pages need to be switched.

The second point that Wuxi pointed out is that the inner planking lies at an inward-sloping angle.

微信图片_20240330090138.png微信图片_20240330090146.png
You can clearly see the angle at which the inner planking is mounted (especially if you look closely at the base of the inner planking on the right hand-side picture.

微信图片_20240329090418.png
To ensure that, the appropriate inner planks are all inscribed with a bevel- or sanding line which indicates by how much the planking needs to be beveled.

All good so far, but to my mind I had done exactly that. After all, it makes perfect sense that an unbeveled or insufficiently beveled plank will sit "higher" on the waterways than one which is sloping inwards at an angle. Had I not done this, or had I done it insufficiently, this could have been a big reason for my inner planking coming out too high. But, yikes, I thought I had that down pat. :oops:

Gap.png
Photographs, however, do not lie and as pointed out by Wuxi (check out the yellow arrow) there is a significant between the inner planking and the deck which tells me I screwed up the beveling. Guilty as charged!

微信图片_20240329090441.png
And to rub salt in the wounds, the fine red arrow points to where the deck _ and subsequently the waterways as well, are not sitting flat on top of the resin base. Again, guilty as charged.

How it should look if all is done well.

微信图片_20240329090453.png
As you can see the required level of accuracy is extremely high. If the builder does his part (which clearly, I haven't) the kit will reward you substantially. This is a case where just crossing your "T's" is not enough; you have to a ruler when doing so!

In summary though, the problems I have experienced were all self-inflicted and is a more a case of a culmination of many factors rather than one glaring boo-boo. It is going to require a considerable number of Hail Mary's to correct though!

Many thanks to @wuxiaomeng Wuxi and @Modelship Dockyard Victor for taking the time to explain everything to me and hopefully point me in the right direction.
 
I mentioned earlier to @dockattner Paul that @Modelship Dockyard is working on yet another model which has the same build configuration as Pandora, and that I think it is fair to say that we will see many more of these types of kits brought to market.

Does anyone want to venture a guess as to what model is being constructed here?

Clue: It's a 64-gunner

微信图片_20240329090556.jpg
微信图片_20240329090605.jpg
 
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