Help with Wooden Steam Drifter. What does "grained on the inside" mean?

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Help needed.

In Ted Frost’s book From Tree to Sea when talking about painting the inside of the bulwarks and stanchions he mentions the stanchions were “grained on the inside”, (have a look at the photo).

DSC_0051 (2).JPG

Does anyone know what he means by grained on the inside?

The only guess I have is it was un-painted, then again I have no idea really.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Stephen.
 
Graining is typically done using rubber scraper tools that, when dragged across a painted surface, leaves the paint looking like wood grain.
 

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I did a Google search for info about "grained on the inside" as related to ship building. The results showed only 7 responses (lowest response I have ever gotten from Google) but their was this one response from "Violin Makers flournal" that mentions "cross-grained" on the inside of a violin as a means of holding things together better under the stresses of expansion & contraction. I realise it is pretty far fetched, but it makes me wonder???
 

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The following is an excerpt from a UK forum discussing traditional canal boat decoration techniques including graining, which is commonly referred to as "scumbling".

Instead of undercoat we would use an oil based eggshell paint as a buff, and the big benefit of which is that it is available from decorator centres in a full range of colours, there are probably a dozen or so that would be suitable for light oak. Most proprietary scumbles come in different shades for use over a common buff, technically it is important not to have too big a contrast between the buff and the scumble, and hence if you want to alter the shade of the finished graining it is better to alter the shade of the buff to achieve this rather than altering the shade of the scumble. Raw umber is really the only pigment required to grain any shade of oak. If you want to go to town try using a couple of different shades of buff, you can use the same scumble over the top and you can get an effective contrast between panels. I too now use polyvine, but like Dave I also prefer to use the clear glaze and either use artist’s oil colours as pigments or polyvine oak stainers. By doing this you are more in control of the depth of pigment, and will need to thin it less. Again, as Dave says, don’t use a ready mixed scumble straight from the tin, it will need thinning, but this is rather to thin the density of the pigment than the viscosity. Too much white spirit will mean that the scumble will not ‘hold up’ and will sag, it is better to thin with a mixture of white spirit and refined linseed oil, in which case also add a little terebine to reduce the drying time, but NEVER EVER leave rags with scumble or linseed oil on lying around as there is a real chance of spontaneous combustion.
 
Graining is typically done using rubber scraper tools that, when dragged across a painted surface, leaves the paint looking like wood grain.
In my part of this country, they used to use that kind of graining many years ago, when "trompe l'oeil" decorating was big, on things such as doors, if they were made of cheap, uninteresting wood, to make them look more expensive like oak for example. This was in the 19th or early 20th century. I imagine it is the same idea when they do "scumbling" on narrow boats as mentioned above. I am trying to figure how such fine decorating would be worth the time on exterior marine finishes exposed to sea, abrasion and sun. But I can't see how else to define the verb "graining".
 
The following is an excerpt from a UK forum discussing traditional canal boat decoration techniques including graining, which is commonly referred to as "scumbling".

Instead of undercoat we would use an oil based eggshell paint as a buff, and the big benefit of which is that it is available from decorator centres in a full range of colours, there are probably a dozen or so that would be suitable for light oak. Most proprietary scumbles come in different shades for use over a common buff, technically it is important not to have too big a contrast between the buff and the scumble, and hence if you want to alter the shade of the finished graining it is better to alter the shade of the buff to achieve this rather than altering the shade of the scumble. Raw umber is really the only pigment required to grain any shade of oak. If you want to go to town try using a couple of different shades of buff, you can use the same scumble over the top and you can get an effective contrast between panels. I too now use polyvine, but like Dave I also prefer to use the clear glaze and either use artist’s oil colours as pigments or polyvine oak stainers. By doing this you are more in control of the depth of pigment, and will need to thin it less. Again, as Dave says, don’t use a ready mixed scumble straight from the tin, it will need thinning, but this is rather to thin the density of the pigment than the viscosity. Too much white spirit will mean that the scumble will not ‘hold up’ and will sag, it is better to thin with a mixture of white spirit and refined linseed oil, in which case also add a little terebine to reduce the drying time, but NEVER EVER leave rags with scumble or linseed oil on lying around as there is a real chance of spontaneous combustion.
Thank you Chris,

That is quite an in depth description, I will have a look at the canal boat "scumbling".

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
In my part of this country, they used to use that kind of graining many years ago, when "trompe l'oeil" decorating was big, on things such as doors, if they were made of cheap, uninteresting wood, to make them look more expensive like oak for example. This was in the 19th or early 20th century. I imagine it is the same idea when they do "scumbling" on narrow boats as mentioned above. I am trying to figure how such fine decorating would be worth the time on exterior marine finishes exposed to sea, abrasion and sun. But I can't see how else to define the verb "graining".
Thanks Tangopapa,

That is a good point Drifters and Canal boats were working boats and it is hard to imagine that a large amount of work would be put into such a decoration, on the other hand what Philsky mentioned though not a plastic one maybe a steel brush or something would not require a lot of time and could be done by apprentices.

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
From my understanding : limited.
Raw materials were beginning to bit home, shortages as in prime. In other words what can we use instead? Repairs needed to blend in or stick out like a sore thumb. Not good to a surveyor with the purse of money ie the client. Painting or lead / turps and pigment needed to blend in ie Wood to grain. As for strength - well that was rule of eye and press / knock / tap drive or pundit nowadays ie indent test, to novices. Of course they had tests but not as scientific as today. Log in salt water to graining of wood ie bond to masts. Wood graining is also a term to see the structural elements. From you picture without the rest of were it came from, seems to about repairs or additions. Thus graining is in today’s words - blending in. Paint you described had specific purposes and laid down in specification. A rule book of the time. Bit like green for exit sign, red for … of course merchant, navy, privateers etc had different standing rules at different time periods. The mix up came when French or Spanish ships were captured and put into UK navy. Usually measurements were carried out and compared or braced or upgrades. Extremely hard to explain corkers to shipwrights to lead & paint works to sawyers etc etc…. These crafts / knowledge is lost as is the language (technical terms used between workers) … try coopers technical tools & language & barrels (apologies to Coopers my ignorance with limited know how). Like modern practices who not need natural materials so biodegrade is a new Technology compared to 18th century practice . Natural hemp, tar, pitch, oakum to terps, natural wood to what they eat and drunk. Grainy wood by your article I think is not specific to structural but on blend. The article I suspect is written for non technical background and editorial enhancement used to show knowledge. Technical sharing info is more prevalent now to then - why do you have indentured to nowadays 2 year city & guilds with 3/4 years then called master craft person. You would be laughed at in those days + mine and in them days by 16 you knew your material / tools…unlike today. Graining was used by ordinary seamen to grain there carvings … so be careful how you use language. Sorry for long words but nowadays everything must be in 1 line to show knowledge. So they say! Oh, One thing to confuse all, run your knife with the gain and then against it …. to wood lay graining or infill graining … + 17th century

BEARD-SPLITTER​

Anyone knows or look up for the ladies?
 
From my understanding : limited.
Raw materials were beginning to bit home, shortages as in prime. In other words what can we use instead? Repairs needed to blend in or stick out like a sore thumb. Not good to a surveyor with the purse of money ie the client. Painting or lead / turps and pigment needed to blend in ie Wood to grain. As for strength - well that was rule of eye and press / knock / tap drive or pundit nowadays ie indent test, to novices. Of course they had tests but not as scientific as today. Log in salt water to graining of wood ie bond to masts. Wood graining is also a term to see the structural elements. From you picture without the rest of were it came from, seems to about repairs or additions. Thus graining is in today’s words - blending in. Paint you described had specific purposes and laid down in specification. A rule book of the time. Bit like green for exit sign, red for … of course merchant, navy, privateers etc had different standing rules at different time periods. The mix up came when French or Spanish ships were captured and put into UK navy. Usually measurements were carried out and compared or braced or upgrades. Extremely hard to explain corkers to shipwrights to lead & paint works to sawyers etc etc…. These crafts / knowledge is lost as is the language (technical terms used between workers) … try coopers technical tools & language & barrels (apologies to Coopers my ignorance with limited know how). Like modern practices who not need natural materials so biodegrade is a new Technology compared to 18th century practice . Natural hemp, tar, pitch, oakum to terps, natural wood to what they eat and drunk. Grainy wood by your article I think is not specific to structural but on blend. The article I suspect is written for non technical background and editorial enhancement used to show knowledge. Technical sharing info is more prevalent now to then - why do you have indentured to nowadays 2 year city & guilds with 3/4 years then called master craft person. You would be laughed at in those days + mine and in them days by 16 you knew your material / tools…unlike today. Graining was used by ordinary seamen to grain there carvings … so be careful how you use language. Sorry for long words but nowadays everything must be in 1 line to show knowledge. So they say! Oh, One thing to confuse all, run your knife with the gain and then against it …. to wood lay graining or infill graining … + 17th century

BEARD-SPLITTER​

Anyone knows or look up for the ladies?
Hi Hermies,

Thanks for your input.
The picture/sketch is from a book written by a shipwright, Ted Frost describing the building of a Wooden steam drifter LT100 built in 1919 when he was an apprentice.
For my model Drifter LT100 it is a go to book full of all sorts of information.
So repair can be ruled out.

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
Thank you
So why the inboard or outboard sheet : presume it’s a scuffing board? Which is sandwiched between the strakes in the photo.
Why is the strake beside it curving to a degree outside bracing limits…. For looks?
Why boxing of ribs with frontal en graining showing?

It does not make sense.
Either steel framed being boxed but why?
Why the starboard rail riveted 10 number? Presume it’s iron rivets … or infill metal?

The sketch is questionable.
The sketch is pictorial rather than constructive.
Language overview.

Chatham tugs were not made like this.
A Steam tug was available up to 1980’s.
Then Knott & before co…. done cost cutting exercise and thought about being modern. Not practical.
Closed the dockyard and then went to war with South Pacific country.
Yes
We had diesel tugs ran on red. Could run on … some were refurbished 1890’s / 1880’s.

Tug is a heavy duty work horse and made like a brick. Not fancy …. Purpose for heavy working duties.

Harbour master / port admiral had boat …. The sketch could refer to that as it was upmarket and a non work horse.

Cleats seem weak for structure loading of work horse compared to rails.
Must be a lay in tie ….
But looks more substantial…. Old pattern by end caps.

Is it possible to show full picture as some kind of spoon or ….. is beside the infill?

Does it say what type of tug boat?
Use?
Sea or river?
Technical specification?
To help clarify tug.

Maybe old tug repaired and now being ? When he can remember.
Not a construction technique we used or in my apprenticeship / indenture MOD tests / working life.

Other than that
As the previous person said am I on the right site? Probably no!
 
Is this a steam drifter tug?
Wooden frame / ribs ?
If so look at stem last rib to Bearding Line - in fill ribs.
Compare that to sketch.

not built with wavy strakes or ….
 
Thank you
So why the inboard or outboard sheet : presume it’s a scuffing board? Which is sandwiched between the strakes in the photo.
Why is the strake beside it curving to a degree outside bracing limits…. For looks?
Why boxing of ribs with frontal en graining showing?

It does not make sense.
Either steel framed being boxed but why?
Why the starboard rail riveted 10 number? Presume it’s iron rivets … or infill metal?

The sketch is questionable.
The sketch is pictorial rather than constructive.
Language overview.

Chatham tugs were not made like this.
A Steam tug was available up to 1980’s.
Then Knott & before co…. done cost cutting exercise and thought about being modern. Not practical.
Closed the dockyard and then went to war with South Pacific country.
Yes
We had diesel tugs ran on red. Could run on … some were refurbished 1890’s / 1880’s.

Tug is a heavy duty work horse and made like a brick. Not fancy …. Purpose for heavy working duties.

Harbour master / port admiral had boat …. The sketch could refer to that as it was upmarket and a non work horse.

Cleats seem weak for structure loading of work horse compared to rails.
Must be a lay in tie ….
But looks more substantial…. Old pattern by end caps.

Is it possible to show full picture as some kind of spoon or ….. is beside the infill?

Does it say what type of tug boat?
Use?
Sea or river?
Technical specification?
To help clarify tug.

Maybe old tug repaired and now being ? When he can remember.
Not a construction technique we used or in my apprenticeship / indenture MOD tests / working life.

Other than that
As the previous person said am I on the right site? Probably no!
Hi Hermies,

I am sorry but I don't know what you are talking about for the most part, clearly you are far more knowledgeable on these things than I am.

I am building the Wooden Steam Drifter Trawler LT100 Formidable to James Pottinger plans.

Unfortunately I don't have a drawing with a fully framed hull.

Here is the un edited photo of the book.

DSC_0051.JPG

Here is a picture out of Model Boats mag of one of the plan sheets.

DSC_1347.JPG

Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
Hi
Thank you!
Trawler.
Then it’s a scratch / struck it / protector in fill or mistake or infill for later work?
Most probably details not as but as over view.
Your question is not structural.
Term used to blend as previous replies have been stated.
Still used in interior panelling work after infills / movements etc…

Remember
pre 1940’s books were technical chest - as I learnt.
Afterwards slow decline to general.
They want to sell books.
Become famous but not technical knowledge or minimal.

Terms not important but follow the overview of the drawings.
They are over views and you have licence to adapt as impossible to pre-build like modern ships etc…
As for accuracy it will be so so as scaling does not work in reality like engine capacity you cannot scale down or …
Take the book as an exciting read.
Then look up technical data.
If you want a technical correct model or a good looking.

I build / built but mine are good looking but technically incorrect - even the so called experts not know lighting conductor … they see / sometimes roughly but not accuracy or anodes they are completely clue less etc…

By then 1890’s they understood sea water corrodes so brass shims or other … in propeller housing to shaft as example. Greased but not what you use on land. Today you use aluminium to brass or modern plastic….

See moulded depth to hold and scantling ratios to Bearding lines. If scaled they not look correct. But be aware
Them days they still knew old sail ships / made.

By my time the last of the sons who were told / worked on was rapidly approaching retirement or land lover managers who not welded a tool for decades.
So good luck
I expect a good looking work ship.
Maybe fully planked or cut away ?
Engine - suggest model engineer! Puffer her up … even if for show!

Please 1st cut is hard but so is last cut.
Send a finished or 3 part photos.
That would be appreciated.

Suggest pear framing if looks - you can dull down
Hawthorn to lime
Brass soft sheet and silver soldering.
But it is a suggestion!
Your model and pride and joy!

Once again thank you sharing interesting info
And your enthusiasm!

Keep scraping and Hope the Mrs feels she has a bit of completion from the Mistress : Mistress of the sea. As mine did.
 
t
Thank you
So why the inboard or outboard sheet : presume it’s a scuffing board? Which is sandwiched between the strakes in the photo.
Why is the strake beside it curving to a degree outside bracing limits…. For looks?
Why boxing of ribs with frontal en graining showing?

It does not make sense.
Either steel framed being boxed but why?
Why the starboard rail riveted 10 number? Presume it’s iron rivets … or infill metal?

The sketch is questionable.
The sketch is pictorial rather than constructive.
Language overview.

Chatham tugs were not made like this.
A Steam tug was available up to 1980’s.
Then Knott & before co…. done cost cutting exercise and thought about being modern. Not practical.
Closed the dockyard and then went to war with South Pacific country.
Yes
We had diesel tugs ran on red. Could run on … some were refurbished 1890’s / 1880’s.

Tug is a heavy duty work horse and made like a brick. Not fancy …. Purpose for heavy working duties.

Harbour master / port admiral had boat …. The sketch could refer to that as it was upmarket and a non work horse.

Cleats seem weak for structure loading of work horse compared to rails.
Must be a lay in tie ….
But looks more substantial…. Old pattern by end caps.

Is it possible to show full picture as some kind of spoon or ….. is beside the infill?

Does it say what type of tug boat?
Use?
Sea or river?
Technical specification?
To help clarify tug.

Maybe old tug repaired and now being ? When he can remember.
Not a construction technique we used or in my apprenticeship / indenture MOD tests / working life.

Other than that
As the previous person said am I on the right site? Probably no!
The inboard outboard sheet as your say is a reinforcing piece that the Hawse hole passes through, and I believe the strake is curved up and above where the hawser hole is positioned, I suppose to help structurally,

There are no steel frames, and the wood frames finish at the sheer line, what the author is showing are stanchions that are attached to the side planking, what they show is called an aris, might have spelled it wrong, a small champer on the front corner edges, I think it you were to read the whole book you would understand better, and I'm not sure what you mean about the starboard rail, there is no starboard rail in the sketch,
Best regards John,
 
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Agree with you.
But not clear in sketch.
As you read the words.
Picture to words not match or bad drawer.
Agree?
Now it is a trawler
Now it is a wooden ribbed frame.
So explain the drawing please
Why so many rivets or?
Curve of planking or strake. Maybe left or right hand side different?
Yes … interesting comic
Bit like famous model engineer who sadly passed away and his notes were updated and technical accuracies were lost.

Please tell me what yard you worked at? At what level : tools or management?
 
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