Leach Lines and Bunt Lines in 18th Century Spanish Ships

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Bay Harbor, Michigan, USA
My textbooks, as a general matter, state leach lines run from the side up the front of the sail to a block stropped to the yard then (on the primary courses) to one or more blocks at the top and down the back. For a topsail, the line could run in front directly to blocks stropped to the tye (dependent whether the yard is static) and down the back but otherwise would run to the yard then mast head and change there.

My Occre Diana kit shows the Leach Line running to the yard block then down. This is not exactly a clean pull. In practice it would definitely cause some chafing. The written instructions do not indicate if the line is entirely on the back or on the front and the back (the line drawn is all solid). There are photographic instructions both ways. I have emailed Occre, but does anyone know of any historical basis for their type of leach line rigging? They use this method consistently on the Romera de Landa-designed frigates and Ships of the Line kit instructions.

Also, I am seeing some source disparity in the number of bunt lines on the primary courses. Zu Mondfeld says one pair for small ships and two for large during my time period -- does one pair mean a total of 2 per sail or 2 per side of the sail so 4? Steel's chart for a 28-32 gun ship shows 4. The same vintage Occre instructions tend to show one line per sail side. Does anyone have any good sources on this besides Zu Mondfeld and Marquardt? I am ignoring Peterson because he shows an English ship.

Thanks for any help or logic!

Thanks in advanced!
 

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Hello,

The best sources for the rigging of 18th century Spanish ships are probably:


– Juan José Navarro, Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756, Lunwerg Editores, Museo Naval Madrid 1995, ISBN 84-7782-352-9

– Isidro Rivera (ed.), Arboladura y jarcia española de la segunda mitad del siglo XVIII. Compendio Compuesto por: Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766. Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766 & Reeditada 1806. Reglamento de Jarcia, Marqués González de Castejón 1773, Associació d'Amics del Museu Marítim de Barcelona, Barcelona 2010, B-42878-2010

Modelos de Arsenal del Museo Naval. Evolucíon de la construccíon naval española, siglos XVII-XVIII, Lunwerg Editores, Barcelona-Madrid 2004, ISBN 84-7782-959-4


Try to locate them yourself at your place first, as snooping through these items is a bigger job.

.​
 
Great answer ... but there are a few hiccups going from theory to execution ($$$$$).


Juan José Navarro, Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756, Lunwerg Editores, Museo Naval Madrid 1995, ISBN 84-7782-352-9

>>>>>> Euro 832 = $892 I can't justify spending this much money especially since my ship is in the last quarter of the century and rigging would probably have evolved.



– Isidro Rivera (ed.), Arboladura y jarcia española de la segunda mitad del siglo XVIII. Compendio Compuesto por: Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766. Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766 & Reeditada 1806. Reglamento de Jarcia, Marqués González de Castejón 1773, Associació d'Amics del Museu Marítim de Barcelona, Barcelona 2010, B-42878-2010

>>>>>This is the holy grail and I have been looking for it quite a while, hoping to get a new print for the official price of 40 Euros. First edition out of print, used copies from Euro 190 = $204. You would think they would shift to print on demand! Do you have any idea where it can be obtained for cheaper? PDF is best so I can use machine translation!


Modelos de Arsenal del Museo Naval. Evolucíon de la construccíon naval española, siglos XVII-XVIII, Lunwerg Editores, Barcelona-Madrid 2004, ISBN 84-7782-959-4


->>>>>>>Got it. Excellent book but very few models show sails (which is normal), even fewer unfurled. The best model has obviously new sails and one needs to question the integrity of non-contemporaneous models. No way for me to confidently to figure leach lines and bunt lines from this book.

FRIGATE DIANA_Page_03.png
 
Links to the download pages of the original PDF documents:

-Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756:
https://catedranaval.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/mdlv.pdf

Page in which the explanation of the handwritten plates is transcribed:
https://armada.defensa.gob.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#

-Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766, from page 150 there is the "Reglamento de Jarcia" del Marqués González de Castejón 1773:
https://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=1006025


Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766:

https://bvpb.mcu.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=151659

And in case it may be of interest:

-Supplement to the "Historia Naval" magazine with a study on Jorge Juan's system referring to the rigging of Spanish ships, 1753:
https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/revista-de-historia-naval-suplemento-n-14.html

-Very complete book of 481 pages on the sailing frigates of the Spanish navy 1600-1850. The link leads to the author's page where it can be consulted in its entirety and allows its download.
http://spanishnavalhistory.blogspot.com/2013/05/las-fragatas-de-vela-de-la-armada.html

 
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@Aoi99
Thanks, you saved me a lot of time :).

@Jeffrey Modell
Look for the keywords "Brioles" and "Apagapenoles". In the tables in the Reglamento de Jarcia by Marqués González de Castejón 1773, you will find the quality, number, length and circumference of these ropes for all the sails of the most important ship categories.

.​
 
Links to the download pages of the original PDF documents:

-Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756:
https://catedranaval.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/mdlv.pdf

Page in which the explanation of the handwritten plates is transcribed:
https://armada.defensa.gob.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#

-Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766, from page 150 there is the "Reglamento de Jarcia" del Marqués González de Castejón 1773:
https://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=1006025


Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766:
https://bvpb.mcu.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=151659

And in case it may be of interest:

-Supplement to the "Historia Naval" magazine with a study on Jorge Juan's system referring to the rigging of Spanish ships, 1753:
https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/revista-de-historia-naval-suplemento-n-14.html

-Very complete book of 481 pages on the sailing frigates of the Spanish navy 1600-1850. The link leads to the author's page where it can be consulted in its entirety and allows its download.
http://spanishnavalhistory.blogspot.com/2013/05/las-fragatas-de-vela-de-la-armada.html

Outstanding -- Many Thanks!
 
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@Jeffrey Modell

Jeffrey, once you have pre-selected specific plates (parts of them) from the Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria, let me know and I will then provide scans/photos of better quality (if needed).

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@Aoi99

The book on Spanish frigates already downloaded (many thanks for the links). And, just to let you know, the paper edition of the book on ships of the line (Navíos de la Real Armada 1700-1860) is already out-of-print. I intend to buy it preferably together with Buques menores y fuerzas sutiles españolas 1700–1850 by the same author (this one still available in bookshops), so as not to multiply shipping costs.

.​
 
Links to the download pages of the original PDF documents:

-Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756:
https://catedranaval.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/mdlv.pdf

Page in which the explanation of the handwritten plates is transcribed:
https://armada.defensa.gob.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#

-Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766, from page 150 there is the "Reglamento de Jarcia" del Marqués González de Castejón 1773:
https://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=1006025


Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766:
https://bvpb.mcu.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=151659

And in case it may be of interest:

-Supplement to the "Historia Naval" magazine with a study on Jorge Juan's system referring to the rigging of Spanish ships, 1753:
https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/revista-de-historia-naval-suplemento-n-14.html

-Very complete book of 481 pages on the sailing frigates of the Spanish navy 1600-1850. The link leads to the author's page where it can be consulted in its entirety and allows its download.
http://spanishnavalhistory.blogspot.com/2013/05/las-fragatas-de-vela-de-la-armada.html

O
.​

@Jeffrey Modell

Jeffrey, once you have pre-selected specific plates (parts of them) from the Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria, let me know and I will then provide scans/photos of better quality (if needed).

.​
Thanks...am currently translating Cartilla sections via machine.
 
.​

@Aoi99

The book on Spanish frigates already downloaded (many thanks for the links). And, just to let you know, the paper edition of the book on ships of the line (Navíos de la Real Armada 1700-1860) is already out-of-print. I intend to buy it preferably together with Buques menores y fuerzas sutiles españolas 1700–1850 by the same author (this one still available in bookshops), so as not to multiply shipping costs.

.​
Mw ha ha ... I have these books plus machine translations of frigates, and Buques book sections on some jabeques! Do you need anything specific from them?
 
.​

No, thanks a lot. Now it's more about filling in missing items in the home library. And of course I love to have everything in paper format if possible. By the way – the book Spanish Warships in the Age of Sail, 1700–1860 has just been published, and one of the co-authors is also Enrique Garcia-Torralba Pérez.

.​
 
Links to the download pages of the original PDF documents:

-Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756:
https://catedranaval.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/mdlv.pdf

Page in which the explanation of the handwritten plates is transcribed:
https://armada.defensa.gob.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#

-Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766, from page 150 there is the "Reglamento de Jarcia" del Marqués González de Castejón 1773:
https://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=1006025


Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766:
https://bvpb.mcu.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=151659

And in case it may be of interest:

-Supplement to the "Historia Naval" magazine with a study on Jorge Juan's system referring to the rigging of Spanish ships, 1753:
https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/revista-de-historia-naval-suplemento-n-14.html

-Very complete book of 481 pages on the sailing frigates of the Spanish navy 1600-1850. The link leads to the author's page where it can be consulted in its entirety and allows its download.
http://spanishnavalhistory.blogspot.com/2013/05/las-fragatas-de-vela-de-la-armada.html

I have been translating various sections of:

-Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766, from page 150 there is the "Reglamento de Jarcia" del Marqués González de Castejón 1773:

and run into three problems. The first is that some of the words are outdated, fixed by guessing the close modern equivalents. The second is that some of the nautical terms have either no translation even in tureng.com or multiple translations (e.g., contrafoque is both fore topmast staysail and inner jib (i.e., regular jib)). The third is that even the google version, which is the cleanest version I have seen, has so many imperfections most sentences need manual clean-up. It is a real slog. That plus it refers to a two-decker whereas I am working on a frigate decked ship.

Does anyone know if an English translation has been done? I have not found it online so I am more referring to the community. Thanks!
 
tervenir Perdón por en
Gran respuesta... pero hay algunos contratiempos entre la teoría y la ejecución ($$$$$).


Juan José Navarro, Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756 , Lunwerg Editores, Museo Naval Madrid 1995, ISBN 84-7782-352-9

>>>>>> 832 euros = 892 dólares. No puedo justificar gastar tanto dinero, especialmente porque mi barco está en el último cuarto de siglo y el aparejo probablemente habría evolucionado.



– Isidro Rivera (ed.), Arboladura y jarcia española de la segunda mitad del siglo XVIII. Compendio Compuesto por: Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766. Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766 & Reeditada 1806. Reglamento de Jarcia, Marqués González de Castejón 1773 , Associació d'Amics del Museu Marítim de Barcelona, Barcelona 2010, B-42878-2010

>>>>>Este es el Santo Grial y lo he estado buscando bastante tiempo, con la esperanza de conseguir una nueva edición por el precio oficial de 40 euros. Primera edición agotada, ejemplares usados desde 190 euros = 204 dólares. ¡Cabe pensar que se pasarían a la impresión bajo demanda! ¿Tienes alguna idea de dónde se puede conseguir más barato? El PDF es lo mejor para poder usar la traducción automática.

https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-...segunda-mitad-del-xviii/9788461329892/3476081

Modelos de Arsenal del Museo Naval. Evolucíon de la construcción naval española, siglos XVII-XVIII , Lunwerg Editores, Barcelona-Madrid 2004, ISBN 84-7782-959-4


Entendido. Excelente libro, pero muy pocos modelos muestran velas (lo cual es normal), y menos aún desplegadas. El mejor modelo obviamente tiene velas nuevas, y es necesario cuestionar la integridad de los modelos no contemporáneos. No tengo forma de calcular con seguridad las líneas de baluma y las líneas de bunt con este libro.

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Links to the download pages of the original PDF documents:

-Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria 1719-1756:
https://catedranaval.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/mdlv.pdf

Page in which the explanation of the handwritten plates is transcribed:
https://armada.defensa.gob.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#

-Cartilla Marítima, Santiago Zuloaga 1760 & 1766, from page 150 there is the "Reglamento de Jarcia" del Marqués González de Castejón 1773:
https://bibliotecadigital.rah.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=1006025


Tratado instructivo y práctico de maniobras navales, Santiago Zuloaga 1766:
https://bvpb.mcu.es/es/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.do?path=151659

And in case it may be of interest:

-Supplement to the "Historia Naval" magazine with a study on Jorge Juan's system referring to the rigging of Spanish ships, 1753:
https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/revista-de-historia-naval-suplemento-n-14.html

-Very complete book of 481 pages on the sailing frigates of the Spanish navy 1600-1850. The link leads to the author's page where it can be consulted in its entirety and allows its download.
http://spanishnavalhistory.blogspot.com/2013/05/las-fragatas-de-vela-de-la-armada.html

Hello, allow me to contribute something to this conversation. My name is Isidro Rivera, and I am the author of some of the books cited.
Unfortunately, practically all documentation about the Spanish Royal Navy is in Spanish. I myself only speak that language; fortunately, we have Google Translate ;-)
Certainly, the book on masts and rigging mentioned is out of print, although the cultural association of which I am a member offers new editions.
We have currently published a book on rigging and rigging from the first half of the 18th century, full of 18th-century drawings. Unfortunately, it is almost out of print and we only distribute it in Spain.

In any case, I am very willing to answer any of your questions on the association's website, asociacionvagara.es.
Best regards.

hola, permítame que aporte algo a esta conversacion. mi nombre es Isidro Rivera y soy el autor de algunos de los libros que se citan.
desafortunadamente practicamente toda la documentacion acerca de la marina real española está en español. yo mismo solo hablo ese idioma, afortunadamente disponemos del tgraductor de google ;-)
ciertamente el libro sobre arboladura y aparejo mencionado esta agotado, aunque la asociacion cultural de la que soy miembro contempla nuevas ediciones.
actualmente hemos publicado un libro sobre aparejado y jarcia de la primera mitad del siglo XVIII, repleto de dibujos del siglo XVIII. desafortunadamente esta casi agotado y solo lo distribuimos en España.

en todo caso estaré muy dispuesto a reponder a cualquiera de sus cuestiones en la web de la asociacion asociacionvagara.es
un saludoasociacion VAGARA

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tervenir Perdón por en



Hello, allow me to contribute something to this conversation. My name is Isidro Rivera, and I am the author of some of the books cited.
Unfortunately, practically all documentation about the Spanish Royal Navy is in Spanish. I myself only speak that language; fortunately, we have Google Translate ;-)
Certainly, the book on masts and rigging mentioned is out of print, although the cultural association of which I am a member offers new editions.
We have currently published a book on rigging and rigging from the first half of the 18th century, full of 18th-century drawings. Unfortunately, it is almost out of print and we only distribute it in Spain.

In any case, I am very willing to answer any of your questions on the association's website, asociacionvagara.es.
Best regards.

hola, permítame que aporte algo a esta conversacion. mi nombre es Isidro Rivera y soy el autor de algunos de los libros que se citan.
desafortunadamente practicamente toda la documentacion acerca de la marina real española está en español. yo mismo solo hablo ese idioma, afortunadamente disponemos del tgraductor de google ;-)
ciertamente el libro sobre arboladura y aparejo mencionado esta agotado, aunque la asociacion cultural de la que soy miembro contempla nuevas ediciones.
actualmente hemos publicado un libro sobre aparejado y jarcia de la primera mitad del siglo XVIII, repleto de dibujos del siglo XVIII. desafortunadamente esta casi agotado y solo lo distribuimos en España.

en todo caso estaré muy dispuesto a reponder a cualquiera de sus cuestiones en la web de la asociacion asociacionvagara.es
un saludoasociacion VAGARA

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I recall your name from my research. Any way to get the 2nd half of the 18th century volume on rigging, even in Spanish? I have completed the rigging plan for the Chambquin (Jabeque Muciano for Maris Stella but like Spanish ships a lot. Thanks very much for offering to help!
 
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