Rigging line size

[Marty Olsen]

How do you measure the diameter of a rigging line? I'm finishing the last of the running rigging and don't have enough line to finish. I tried using a digital micrometer, being careful not to compress the the line, but I can't find a new line anywhere on the internet that fit my results.
Thanks,
Marty

 

[Corsair]

Put ten winds on a dowel with the windings adjacent to each other and measure the distance and divide by 10.

 

[Uwek]

Put ten winds on a dowel with the windings adjacent to each other and measure the distance and divide by 10.

this is the way I am also checking the diameter

 

[Roger Pellett]

Here is a useful little gadget that you can make yourself. The bands on the smaller of the two dowels are in 1/8” increments. MM increments would of course work just as well. Wrap your rigging around the smaller dowel until it gets to one of the bands, count the turns and divide the width by the number of turns. Easier to use than a straight dowel.

Roger

 

[OlivierF]

I also use a dowel with 10 wraps and measure with a digital micrometer. However I cut a groove along the dowel so it’s easier for the micrometer jaws to clamp the windings. Remember not to squeeze the measurement as that will throw off your result.

I believe the second part of your question was finding a source for scale rope. Check out “Ropes of Scale” or “Dry Dock Models” or “Model Expo” there are links to their websites on the SOS home page.

 

[Andromeda]

This should be listed in a “Tip of the Week.” I am in my 5th year building ships and this would have been great to know sooner. Thanks for posting a question I should have raised a long time back.

 

[AllanKP69]

Check out “Ropes of Scale” or “Dry Dock Models” or “Model Expo”

I agree on the first two sources you mention and would add Syren. Their rigging line looks like rope rather than string or thread. The photo below is from RoS and the rope from DDM and Syren are the same in appearance.

 

[wmgrimball]

Thanks for answering a question that has long been in my mind.

 

[Roger Pellett]

I have a small stash of Cuttyhunk Hard Twisted linen fishing line. It’s beautiful stuff. It’s not braided but twisted like real rope. Model Shipways used to sell it back in the “Yellow Box” solid hull ship model days. They also sold a tightly woven light fabric known as Balloon Cloth that was like no other fabric for sails. Neither is commercially available today. Master modeler Rob Napier used the Cuttyhunk line to restore the rigging on a very old Dutch ship model for the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. It sometimes shows up for sale on EBay. If you can find it, buy it!

Roger

 

[BradNSW]

I used this supplier for the various size lines while rigging the below cannons. It does unravel as soon as you cut it so you have to take preventative measures (glue or tape or cut long and serve/trim).

Scale Miniature rope for Rigging Ship Models - Hand made rigging line for ship model builders

Hand made rigging line for ship model builders

syrenshipmodelcompany.com

 

[AllanKP69]

Hi Brad,
The rope is probably polyester and it will unravel. Very neatly made and rigged cannon in the photos above! The carriage design and rigging of the breech rope are new to me and interesting as I had not seen the breech rope go through the carriage before. I am guessing it would not be called a breech rope as it does not go around the button at the breech so maybe that is why I cannot find anything about it. I looked high and low and cannot find this kind of rigging in Congreve, Simmons, Falconer or Caruana so am curious as to where/when this was used. Many thanks
Allan

 

[Uwek]

Hi Brad,
The rope is probably polyester and it will unravel. Very neatly made and rigged cannon in the photos above! The carriage design and rigging of the breech rope are new to me and interesting as I had not seen the breech rope go through the carriage before. I am guessing it would not be called a breech rope as it does not go around the button at the breech so maybe that is why I cannot find anything about it. I looked high and low and cannot find this kind of rigging in Congreve, Simmons, Falconer or Caruana so am curious as to where/when this was used. Many thanks
Allan

Hallo Allan,
it is still cauled "breeching rope" - and it is simply the french way the gun carriages were hold against the recoil

sketches by Jean Boudriot



stowed



from 74-gun ship

Book review - Book Review: "THE 74-GUN SHIP - Volume 2 - FITTING OUT THE HULL" (Set of 4 Volumes) - by Jean Boudriot

Book Review: THE 74-Gun SHIP / THE SEVENTY-FOUR GUN SHIP A Practical Treatise on the Art of Naval Architecture 4 Volume Set (Set of 4 volumes) Overview of the Content of all 4 Volumes: Here: Volume 2 - FITTING OUT THE HULL by Jean Boudriot english translation by David H. Roberts...

shipsofscale.com

also interesting

Book review - NAVAL ARTILLERY French navy 1650-1850" - NEW ENGLISH VERSION - by Jean Boudriot and Hubert Berti

Book Review: NAVAL ARTILLERY French navy 1650-1850 An Historical and Technical Study Set of 93 plates. NEW ENGLISH VERSION by Jean Boudriot and Hubert Berti Translated by François Fougerat This book in french language was over a long time one of the Basic Books published by ancre...

shipsofscale.com

 

[Roger Pellett]

With due respect to the ordnance specialists of the French Navy, from an engineering standpoint this arrangement is flawed When the gun fires, most of the mass to be restrained is of course in the barrel, not the carriage. With this arrangement forces from the moving barrel are transferred to the carriage. The only link between the two is the cut out in the carriage secured by the cap square. Thus the weak link between the barrel and carriage must restrain the recoil.

The other system with the breech rope secured to the barrel, acts directly on the major mass.

Since Newton was British, these guys must have ignored him!

Roger

 

[Uwek]

......Since Newton was British, these guys must have ignored him!

The 3.rd one.....

but it seems, that it worked for the french good enough, that they followed this principle over centuries.

Maybe there were advantages also

- f.e. no breeching line is hindering the gunner when he set the target
- Or the maybe problem that the front of muzzle is intending to uplift when the gun was fired and the forces is going into the breeching rope



red the breeching line is taking over the recoil forces - the breeching line is than a direct line between the the ring at the muzzle end and the ring-bolt at the carriage
this red forces is producing a rotation (blue)
and with this the front of the gun wants to go up
These forces are producing pressuere on the stool bed and bolster at the rear and also tension on all the capsquare with the fixing bolts of the capsquare

-> I want only to mention that there is a lot of physics in such a gun - either the french or the british

I guess they knew about the pros and cons

 

[johnv]

Hi Brad,
The rope is probably polyester and it will unravel. Very neatly made and rigged cannon in the photos above! The carriage design and rigging of the breech rope are new to me and interesting as I had not seen the breech rope go through the carriage before. I am guessing it would not be called a breech rope as it does not go around the button at the breech so maybe that is why I cannot find anything about it. I looked high and low and cannot find this kind of rigging in Congreve, Simmons, Falconer or Caruana so am curious as to where/when this was used. Many thanks
Al

I used this supplier for the various size lines while rigging the below cannons. It does unravel as soon as you cut it so you have to take preventative measures (glue or tape or cut long and serve/trim).

Scale Miniature rope for Rigging Ship Models - Hand made rigging line for ship model builders

Hand made rigging line for ship model builders

syrenshipmodelcompany.com

View attachment 472516View attachment 472517

Not properly twisted or hardened if it unravels. Also, it is secured for travel, not for action. The big loose rope would have been wound around the cascabel for action.

 

[BradNSW]

Agree Uwe - there is a lot of physics in such a gun - either the french or the british.

In all cannons (field or shipboard), the force is transferred from the barrel, to the gun frame (through the trunnions). From the frame, it is absorbed into the ground (field artillery) or the heavy trucks (wheels), friction in the rope tackles and finally the breeching line.

 

[johnv]

How do you measure the diameter of a rigging line? I'm finishing the last of the running rigging and don't have enough line to finish. I tried using a digital micrometer, being careful not to compress the the line, but I can't find a new line anywhere on the internet that fit my results.
Thanks,
Marty

 

[johnv]

Measure the width of 10 winds around a cylinder then divide by 10 to get the rope diameter.