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LUCZORAMA SHIPWRECK SCAVENGER HUNT GIVEAWAY. 4 Weeks of Fun • 1 Legendary Prize ((OcCre’s Fram Ship)) • Global Crew Welcome!
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I reckon the European kit manufacturers have not made any changes to their kits in years.
That's is not completely true Brian. Their prices has gone up and up.
Happymodeling
Greg
AL have re released some kits , but have cut their metal casts to 3d plastic and have changed to wood out to less variations & simplified some parts. Still the instructions are better.( not perfect but better). Pricing has staid the same.
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Can anyone see any change in the latest kits of the conventional kit manufacturers? The Chinese (and some Russians) are going ahead full steam, but what about the Europeans and the Americans?
Janos
here in America ship kits seems to have come to a stand still. The high cost of R&D really puts a strangle hold on coming up with new kits.
this is such a small hobby there is no support for anyone to invest the time and money and expect to survive.
one big issue is first the cost of the kit then on top of that is duty costs then shipping costs and currency exchange rates makes selling kits outside the US very, very expensive. Any small business here in the states is limited to the US market and that is tiny.
Janos
here in America ship kits seems to have come to a stand still. The high cost of R&D really puts a strangle hold on coming up with new kits.
this is such a small hobby there is no support for anyone to invest the time and money and expect to survive.
one big issue is first the cost of the kit then on top of that is duty costs then shipping costs and currency exchange rates makes selling kits outside the US very, very expensive. Any small business here in the states is limited to the US market and that is tiny.
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Dave, HATE TO SOUND LIKE A RECORD, WHAT ABOUT THE MSB PROJECTS, THE DIFFERENT X SECTIONS IS A GREAT IDEA, PLEASE DO NOT FOREGET IT>Don
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your right Don there are "projects" than can be custom made like the Blandford X section or the bomb vessel cross section that Winston is working on.
I have been working on sections of the Mississippi like the bow gun section, cabin section, engine section and stern sections of Hahn ships etc all possible.
you were part of the bomb vessel X section design group so you are well aware of the R&D costs involved
my solution to new projects is a joint effort of resources
any one small shop can not afford the risk of R&D and production on a limited amount of sales sooo! here is what the hobby needs
we have the resources for deep research, we have skilled draftsmen, we have 3D artists what we do not have is low production costs and commercial size laser cutters, production casting or production 3D printing.
3 things are needed and working together
A a forum such as this to set up the building project and create the build logs (replacing kit instructions) and selling the custom made kit
B someone to design the project
C someone like Max at ZHL to step up and do the production of the kit
I have been working on sections of the Mississippi like the bow gun section, cabin section, engine section and stern sections of Hahn ships etc all possible.
you were part of the bomb vessel X section design group so you are well aware of the R&D costs involved
my solution to new projects is a joint effort of resources
any one small shop can not afford the risk of R&D and production on a limited amount of sales sooo! here is what the hobby needs
we have the resources for deep research, we have skilled draftsmen, we have 3D artists what we do not have is low production costs and commercial size laser cutters, production casting or production 3D printing.
3 things are needed and working together
A a forum such as this to set up the building project and create the build logs (replacing kit instructions) and selling the custom made kit
B someone to design the project
C someone like Max at ZHL to step up and do the production of the kit
this is pretty much the Truth here in the US cost of labor is so high that prices cant really be lowered any without going to cheaper Materials to offset the cost.
I know Billings models from Denmark did upgrade some of their kits a few years ago.
They swapped over those horrible plastic deadeyes and tackle blocks to wooden ones.
They swapped over those horrible plastic deadeyes and tackle blocks to wooden ones.
There are some small nice market suppliers like here in The Netherlands kolderstok models. http://www.kolderstok-models.com/index.en.html
I think if you supply something of high quality or something in a niche for which people are willing to pay more there should be still a market out there.
A second possibility is providing material sets and digital drawings for people with their own cnc tools which will be more common in the near future.
We now see that a lot of people here move to the chineese market for their new kits and not because they are cheap.
If the european suppliers want to survive they have to turn.
I think if you supply something of high quality or something in a niche for which people are willing to pay more there should be still a market out there.
A second possibility is providing material sets and digital drawings for people with their own cnc tools which will be more common in the near future.
We now see that a lot of people here move to the chineese market for their new kits and not because they are cheap.
If the european suppliers want to survive they have to turn.
Dave, That is a tall order, WHAT ABOUT MIKE41 for design, why not ask him to join you in the design, and why not pick subjects that have already been researched, there are many, I think there is a great deal of information in RIF WINFIELD BOOKS, AGAIN MY SUGESTION JUST TO START WIT A SERIOUS OF X SECTIONS SHOWING THE DIFFERENT HULL DESIGNS FROM THE VARIOUS SEA GOING COUNTRYS,ie DUTCH, FRENCH, ENGLISH, DANISH, AMERICAN, and nobody has looked at THE ASIAN COUNTRYS OF CHINA and JAPAN, easy to research not eleberate builds, needs 3-D instructions to offer something more constructive thgen what is produced now, your thoughts on hureing someone to do the 3-D work and incorporate the cost into the models, JUST MY THOUGHTS, LET ME HERE FROM ANYONE WITH MORE IDEAS. Don
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your thoughts on hiring someone to do the 3-D work and incorporate the cost into the models,
http://www.3dprintsbystacy.com/
actually I do have someone I hire to do the 3D work and printing. Stacy is one of the best artists out there.
START WIT A SERIOUS OF X SECTIONS SHOWING THE DIFFERENT HULL DESIGNS FROM THE VARIOUS SEA GOING COUNTRYS, ie DUTCH, FRENCH, ENGLISH, DANISH, AMERICAN,
basically a hull is built the same regardless of country
nobody has looked at THE ASIAN COUNTRYS OF CHINA and JAPAN,
that would be very difficult because of language and no info on historical archives.
need 3-D instructions to offer something more constructive then what is produced now
that was tried and to date there is no progress it is very time consuming and very expensive to hire a 3D artist
That is a tall order,
I know the odds are slim of getting someone like ZHL to work with anyone to create new stuff, so we see the same kits done over and over and over again. ZHL copied the Druid the confederacy the Halifax and so on how many more copies of the same ships does this hobby really need?
here in Cleveland is the model railroad show held at the local fair grounds the event fills 4 big buildings with 450 vendors and displays this is a hobby a business can take a risk with new products, the market is huge. In this hobby it is tiny and flooded to the top with the same kits done again and again, nothing new, nothing state of the art. Actually ship kits made today are still the same as they were made 30 years ago.
Can anyone see any change in the latest kits of the conventional kit manufacturers? The Chinese (and some Russians) are going ahead full steam, but what about the Europeans and the Americans?
Janos
this is true they are moving ahead but not in creativity only in manufacturing a copy of what is already done.
http://www.3dprintsbystacy.com/
actually I do have someone I hire to do the 3D work and printing. Stacy is one of the best artists out there.
START WIT A SERIOUS OF X SECTIONS SHOWING THE DIFFERENT HULL DESIGNS FROM THE VARIOUS SEA GOING COUNTRYS, ie DUTCH, FRENCH, ENGLISH, DANISH, AMERICAN,
basically a hull is built the same regardless of country
nobody has looked at THE ASIAN COUNTRYS OF CHINA and JAPAN,
that would be very difficult because of language and no info on historical archives.
need 3-D instructions to offer something more constructive then what is produced now
that was tried and to date there is no progress it is very time consuming and very expensive to hire a 3D artist
That is a tall order,
I know the odds are slim of getting someone like ZHL to work with anyone to create new stuff, so we see the same kits done over and over and over again. ZHL copied the Druid the confederacy the Halifax and so on how many more copies of the same ships does this hobby really need?
here in Cleveland is the model railroad show held at the local fair grounds the event fills 4 big buildings with 450 vendors and displays this is a hobby a business can take a risk with new products, the market is huge. In this hobby it is tiny and flooded to the top with the same kits done again and again, nothing new, nothing state of the art. Actually ship kits made today are still the same as they were made 30 years ago.
Can anyone see any change in the latest kits of the conventional kit manufacturers? The Chinese (and some Russians) are going ahead full steam, but what about the Europeans and the Americans?
Janos
this is true they are moving ahead but not in creativity only in manufacturing a copy of what is already done.
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Hello Everyone,
I know everyone has been talking about different prices from different companies and the types of kits available. That is why I believe everyone should strive to build from scratch. I know it is not everyone's cup of tea but this way the model builder tends to become his own little, "Model Pioneer". That being said, scratch building has a vast forgiveness threshold compared to kits which has a lower tolerance for mistake/errors. Any thoughts on the matter?
Ray
I know everyone has been talking about different prices from different companies and the types of kits available. That is why I believe everyone should strive to build from scratch. I know it is not everyone's cup of tea but this way the model builder tends to become his own little, "Model Pioneer". That being said, scratch building has a vast forgiveness threshold compared to kits which has a lower tolerance for mistake/errors. Any thoughts on the matter?
Ray
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the big advantage with a kit is everything you need to build the model is in the box
Yes building from a kit provides you with all the materials for a plain build and you can extent to whatever degree you want. In scratch building you really need to know the art of ship building, selecting the proper materials, tools to work these and the art of reading drawings. If you possess these then scratch building can become a choice to go for, for really building your own unique piece of history. But still you can buy a good quality kit and make it better, for this you need partly the same skills and knowledge as for scratch building only your progress is maybe slightly quicker. I'd like from kits thats every thing is in the box and the fun already begins when gazing at the individual parts.