OcCre San Filipe Rigging HELP!

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bargejo

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HELP! I’ve finished the hull and stepped the masts (OcCre 1/87 San Felipe 1690) and was looking ahead at the rigging plans. The standing rigging I can figure out, but the ‘plans’ for the running rigging have no identifications as to which mast is being referred to. I’ve always heard that OcCre is pretty casual when it comes to rigging instructions but what is provided is borderline ridiculous. Does anyone know what parts are being referred to on the plans labeled E,G, and H? Are they Fore, Main, Mizzen or simply showing one ‘typical’ mast rigging scheme for main, top, topgallant? I’ve messaged OcCre but their customer service is on par with their rigging instructions so I’m not too optimistic. I’m not accomplished enough to free lance it and I’ve already attached all the blocks to all the yards per OcCre’s diagrams so I’m not sure things would line up if I used a generic or ‘typical’ rigging plan. Suggestions?

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This is one principled scheme for all masts. I'm working on Artesania latina's "San Giovanni Battista" right now. And he dealt with the same problem for a few days.
 
Maks said:
This is one principled scheme for all masts. I'm working on Artesania latina's "San Giovanni Battista" right now. And he dealt with the same problem for a few days.
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Hi Maks, I ask : you do not have drawings out of Kit.Frank
 
Rigging seems to have varied from ship to ship regardless of nationality. There are rigging books for British ships such as James Lees Masting and Rigging or Anderson's The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast that may be helpful and more realistic, including belaying plans and order of dressing. For example Spanish and English ships did not use belaying pins until the second half of the 18th century. Too late for this build, but a good rigging book is something you might find useful for future builds. After several email discussions with folks at OcCre, it seems that if accuracy is important to you relying on what they provide is not a good idea. You can also reach out the Museo Naval in Madrid for help and information.
Allan
 
Here are two of the ‘instructions’ pages in question. I can’t tell if these are generic or refer to specific masts.

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I can understand your concern/frustration. I bought the Victory from Occre and have only opened and inventoried the kit, but I have also reviewed all of the plans and documents included, bear in mind that this is a $1700 kit. The rigging plans are a bit sparse to me as well. But I spent considerable time and money on Amazon and ordered multiple new and out of print books to support the build, there are many out there on period rigging, at least for the English ships of the day. Try to find historical books on Spanish ship construction, armament, and rigging to supplement what Occre provided. Someone else can provide the reference, but I have seen post in SoS and website of original and historical ship plans, that might help you as well. Best of luck with this, I’ll where you are in a few years.
 
Judging by the plans of my "San Giovanni Battista," the drawings are common to medium-sized masts. Separately for the nasal and separately for the aft. I can take a picture of my drawings later.
 
your plans also include drawings showing the belaying pins by number, which the rigging also shows the line that goes to a specific pin. Such as, J50 on the mast rigging drawing corresponds to the belaying pin with that number. Looking at the pin numbers and correlating them to their respective masts shows which mast is which with respect to their location on the hull. Such as J50 is on the mizzen. And on the J drawing of your model.2025-02-09 (3).pngJ50.png
 
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Philski said:
your plans also include drawings showing the belaying pins by number, which the rigging also shows the line that goes to a specific pin. Such as, J50 on the mast rigging drawing corresponds to the belaying pin with that number. Looking at the pin numbers and correlating them to their respective masts shows which mast is which with respect to their location on the hull. Such as J50 is on the mizzen. And on the J drawing of your model.View attachment 500342View attachment 500343
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I appreciate you taking the time to help.
 
Mwentling said:
I can understand your concern/frustration. I bought the Victory from Occre and have only opened and inventoried the kit, but I have also reviewed all of the plans and documents included, bear in mind that this is a $1700 kit. The rigging plans are a bit sparse to me as well. But I spent considerable time and money on Amazon and ordered multiple new and out of print books to support the build, there are many out there on period rigging, at least for the English ships of the day. Try to find historical books on Spanish ship construction, armament, and rigging to supplement what Occre provided. Someone else can provide the reference, but I have seen post in SoS and website of original and historical ship plans, that might help you as well. Best of luck with this, I’ll where you are in a few years.
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The OcCre Victory (an unexpected gift from my wife) is to be my next project so even while frustrated, I’m glad to have the San Felipe to practice on. I’ve already purchased the recommended Victory reference books because it’s a certainty that I’m going to need them. I’ll be following your journey with interest.
 
bargejo said:
The OcCre Victory (an unexpected gift from my wife) is to be my next project so even while frustrated, I’m glad to have the San Felipe to practice on. I’ve already purchased the recommended Victory reference books because it’s a certainty that I’m going to need them. I’ll be following your journey with interest.
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Unfortunately, I had packed up the workshop and put the house on the market for sale. But the market is so soft right it homes are simply not selling. So over the next month or so, I’ll bring my shop back from storage, unpack and get things set-up again. Having never built a PoF frame before, I am going to build the USS Constitution cut-way from Model Expo first, and then hopefully start on the Victory this fall. I need to build some basic skills on ships before I tackle the Victory. This was my shop before I packed up, that is a WACO Biplane frame on the worktable, the wingspan will be 109” when complete. I am coming over from the stick built RC world.

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Hi there, I have completed a few occre models and the rigging plans you are referring to are generic for the masts.
 
As others have said OcCre's plans are generic. I would advise getting the standing rigging on before starting on the running rigging, particulalry if you've not got much experience with making standing rigging. BTW a very beautifully made model. I'd put it on my project list if it wasn't already long enough to see me through two lifetimes(!!)
 
bargejo said:
Oh my, now THAT’S a workshop! I can only dream.
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I am in the process of building the Endeavour from OccRe and in agreement with all those modellers who are building ships from OcCre the rigging plans are, to say the least, challenging. The company did some fine work on the hull and deck furniture, including the masts, but seem to have lost interest in the rigging. I am frustrated with the rigging plans and reverted to Marquardt's book "The anatomy of the ship" and to Petersson's "Rigging period ship models" for better details.
I found when rigging is to work from the inside to the outside of the ship, otherwise it becomes fiddly when attempting to tie some of the running rigging in place when all the standing rigging is applied. I suppose it's a matter of choice. I will display the ship without sails.
 
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