Question: Why do some people feel model ship building needs a wider audience?

[Bob Cleek]

Nothing promotes more scratch building or the hobby than a buuld log ,why not start a build log about your build instead complaining day in day out about kits??

It's been done already. Anybody who builds kits and has decided scratch-building is beyond their ability, should study https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/legyptienne-1799-1-64-ancre-monograph.16853/#post-440910 to see what a guy with only one kit model under his belt, the Amati xebec, can accomplish without any more experience than that and primarily using hand tools and outsourced laser cutting services. It puts to rest the "I could never do that" argument once and for all!

 

[zoly99sask]

It's been done already. Anybody who builds kits and has decided scratch-building is beyond their ability, should study https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/legyptienne-1799-1-64-ancre-monograph.16853/#post-440910 to see what a guy with only one kit model under his belt, the Amati xebec, can accomplish without any more experience than that and primarily using hand tools and outsourced laser cutting services. It puts to rest the "I could never do that" argument once and for all!

Yes,that very nice but it does not mean that every other kit builder can or would do it or interested to do it at all

 

[Bob Cleek]

The moment we start using terms like “elite” as a qualifier for worth or legitimacy, we risk discouraging people from even trying.

I wonder where our armed forces would be if they ascribed to this philosophy. When their high-priced recruiting advertising consultants produce recruiting ads, they all seem to send the message, "Be all you can be!" with pictures of decidedly "elite" forces in action and never buck privates peeling potatoes!

 

[Jimsky]

I wonder where our armed forces would be if they ascribed to this philosophy. When their high-priced recruiting advertising consultants produce recruiting ads, they all seem to send the message, "Be all you can be!" with pictures of decidedly "elite" forces in action and never buck privates peeling potatoes!

That’s quite a leap, now we’re comparing a personal creative hobby to military recruitment strategy? I think that speaks for itself. Sorry, bro.

Also, please stop pulling me into these conversations. I’ve made my position clear in earlier posts, and I’m stepping away from this thread. I’d appreciate it if you respect that.

 

[Bob Cleek]

But constantly dividing the community into an “elite” and, by implication, everyone else, creates a narrow and unnecessary hierarchy in what is, for most of us, a creative and personal craft such as a hobby.

i am one odd ball because i think the exact opposite, If i came across this art/craft and saw an elite level of accomplished craftsmen i would feel honored and privileged to be part of the group at any level. Those who took this to a level of art even beyond anything i personally could accomplish would inspire me to try and achieve higher and higher standards until i reach my limits.
To be part of an average oh-hum group does not inspire.
but hey that is just me i need to see what can be done and figure out how to get there.

a prime example is the NRG they had ads in the past that stated for the discerning model builders and better models through research they also been called the elite in the hobby.
recognizing an elite class sure did not cripple them. They not only survive but are growing so i believe there is something appealing to belong to such groups be it model ships, model engineering, stream engine modeling or whatever.

Make that at least two odd balls because I've long been saying the same thing, and I firmly believe that is an accurate analysis. Actually, there's a few more, "refugees" from the other forums who have settled here (voluntarily, or otherwise) because they feel the same as we do. (And for those in this forum who are unaware, it was and probably still their policy to "ban" any of their members who have the temerity to belong to this forum!)

As for the NRG, you are absolutely correct that once upon a time, its focus was on "discerning model builders and better models through research" and for want of a better term, their focus was on the "elite" sector of ship modelers. That's why they called themselves the "Nautical Research Guild." While they do "survive," they lost that cache when a number of ship model kit and after-market kit parts manufacturers came to control the management of that (non-profit tax exempt) organization and turned it into an advertising vehicle for their own businesses and "dumbed down" their Model Ship World forum to focus primarily on model kits of all sorts, ranging far beyond ships to plastic airplane, armor, and automobile models. The quantity of their forum membership expanded exponentially, but the quality of the content declined. That has no doubt improved the bottom lines of the commercial advertisers that now use the NRG's forum as a (tax) free advertising outlet but has done little to advance the quality of ship modeling beyond the increased availability of a larger selection of kits. While I wholeheartedly support opposition to counterfeit foreign kits which violate the intellectual property rights of other kit manufacturers, had the NRG spent less energy trying to boycott "pirated" model kits and ostracize modelers who dared mention building them, ship modeling would have better benefited from that energy being directed to the hobby itself instead of to the economic interests of those who now control the NRG.

However well-intentioned the sentiment may be, I believe discouraging a recognized hierarchy of knowledge, skill, and accomplishment in ship modeling, or any other endeavor, for that matter, will not "promote the hobby," but will ultimately inure to its detriment.

 

[Alan Smith]

Of course the number of 'elite' modellers has increased. The population is bigger than in the days of your- much bigger. Potential patrons are richer and more numerous, and we also have an independently wealthy class of retired people with time on their hands and access to fabulous stores of info on YT and huge material resources via the internet.

 

[Bob Cleek]

Of course the number of 'elite' modellers has increased. The population is bigger than in the days of your- much bigger. Potential patrons are richer and more numerous, and we also have an independently wealthy class of retired people with time on their hands and access to fabulous stores of info on YT and huge material resources via the internet.

That would certainly appear to be the case. The internet's access to research data, notwithstanding its frequent lack of academic organization, accuracy, and citation to authority, surely has made ship modeling research much easier in many ways and that access seems to have attracted many more interested folks. I suppose the larger number of retired people provides a larger potential interest group, although there is also a far greater number of competing interests, not least of all the internet and a plethora of activities such as video games and streaming movies than there used to be. I doubt we will ever see a return to the "Golden Age" of ship modeling during the first half of the Twentieth Century before distractions like television when hobbies generally were far more widely pursued. If you mention "model engineering" these days, most people will respond with a blank stare!

 

[Jimsky]

Make that at least two odd balls because I've long been saying the same thing, and I firmly believe that is an accurate analysis. Actually, there's a few more, "refugees" from the other forums who have settled here (voluntarily, or otherwise) because they feel the same as we do. (And for those in this forum who are unaware, it was and probably still their policy to "ban" any of their members who have the temerity to belong to this forum!)

As for the NRG, you are absolutely correct that once upon a time, its focus was on "discerning model builders and better models through research" and for want of a better term, their focus was on the "elite" sector of ship modelers. That's why they called themselves the "Nautical Research Guild." While they do "survive," they lost that cache when a number of ship model kit and after-market kit parts manufacturers came to control the management of that (non-profit tax exempt) organization and turned it into an advertising vehicle for their own businesses and "dumbed down" their Model Ship World forum to focus primarily on model kits of all sorts, ranging far beyond ships to plastic airplane, armor, and automobile models. The quantity of their forum membership expanded exponentially, but the quality of the content declined. That has no doubt improved the bottom lines of the commercial advertisers that now use the NRG's forum as a (tax) free advertising outlet but has done little to advance the quality of ship modeling beyond the increased availability of a larger selection of kits. While I wholeheartedly support opposition to counterfeit foreign kits which violate the intellectual property rights of other kit manufacturers, had the NRG spent less energy trying to boycott "pirated" model kits and ostracize modelers who dared mention building them, ship modeling would have better benefited from that energy being directed to the hobby itself instead of to the economic interests of those who now control the NRG.

However well-intentioned the sentiment may be, I believe discouraging a recognized hierarchy of knowledge, skill, and accomplishment in ship modeling, or any other endeavor, for that matter, will not "promote the hobby," but will ultimately inure to its detriment.

Admin Note:
Just a friendly reminder to all participants, when referencing other forums or organizations, it’s best to avoid naming them directly. This helps us maintain a respectful and neutral tone, especially since experiences and perspectives may vary. Let’s keep the focus on building a positive and supportive environment here.

Thanks for your understanding and continued contributions.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

today i have to do photography and prep up my Saturday morning post in the school of model ship building. But before i do that i have a thought that came to me.

first a topic such as this is good because it gives the staff food for thought. It is something like i design a kit; sell the kit and never ever get feed back. So did i do a good job? are there any problems i might have missed? tell me good or bad please! discussions like this broaden the understanding seeing the full spectrum of the art.

ok my late night thought

model ship building is an art/craft going back 100s of years in many different forms, trying to move this is the direction of making it a happy hobby and trying to erase or ignore it's true nature is frustrating because there are builders around the world trying their best to keep it as an art and not just a run of the mill hobby. By its nature it is an elite art form you have to know marine architecture it requires skill, problem solving and so on.
it might be better to turn it around and start with a happy hobby that moves in the direction of a high-end art rather that a high-end art moving in the direction of being reduced to a simple hobby.

this does not create a division of the elite and the hobby builder it is a chain reaction a coherent movement from one end to the other.

ok that is my thought now i got to go teach how to build laser cut frames

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

oh one more thing Bob Cleek there is no reason to bring up the NRG or what they have become. I brought it up from 30 years ago when it was focused on hi end quality model building by the masters. it was inspiring to be part of it back then.
but hey! they are trying to push the hobby angle these days that is fine and good for all of us.
the old NRG is nothing like the new NRG they are worlds apart. so be it

 

[Roger Pellett]

I joined the old NRG 50 years ago. I still miss it!

I like the happy hobby description. For me, it’s not a happy hobby. It’s a compelling feature of my like that gives me great satisfaction when things go well and frustration when things don’t.

Roger