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Hello I need help!

U

UssIntelagentFIsh

Joined
Aug 27, 2025
Messages
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Hi I'm new hear and this site seams credible for modeling advice. I'm starting a project to build a 6th rate British sailing ship I was interested on how to build this specific one on the site: https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/english-6th-rate-ship-–-reverse-engineering-the-draught-from-the-late-17th-century.12152/. I have planking that's 1/16 X 1/4 X 25 I don't know much about scale I looked It up and It would translate to 1:48 to 1:64 I don't know If that's accurate. I also would like to know how I cloud build the that specific 6th rate ship into a model.
 
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Loracs said:
@Waldemar, @-Waldemar- greeting. I just took the liberty to ping you to this question; a case you missed it. @UssIntelagentFIsh, you are certainly at the right forum. Welcome and hope you get an answer.
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I've been doing quite a bit of research on where to start with my scratch build and have ben specifically ben researching the skeleton of the ship ribbing specifically. I did link a 6th rate ship I could make but further research shows the plans where not that accurate. If you have any suggestions on any 6th rate British ships that would be helpful.
 
I would recommend that you get the books by Davd Antscherl called "The Fully Framed Model, HMN Swan Class Sloops" as a decent place to start this build. However, you have not told us anything about what you currently have. How many ship models have you built?

From your comment about researching the "skeleton" of the ship of the "ribbing" specifically, I'm going to gather that you do not have much experience with ship building knowledge but are looking at creating what we refer to as a "Plank on Frame" model.

Other things in addition to the design of the ship that you need to consider are the needed tools, the different types of wood to make it out of, and even the different types of adhesives you want to use. Even setting up a shop to create your masterpiece. Yes, you will need some sort of space to build this as it will be significant in size. I'm currently building a 6th rate ship, the HMS Enterprise 1774 and the hull alone, without the bowsprit is over 36" long and almost a foot wide.
The Swan is a slightly smaller ship but these books will provide information to all the topics I've listed above and then some.
IMG_1718.jpeg
 
ZAZ4602 is the only drawing of this particular vessel which is an unknown unrated (18 gun) sloop of the late 17th century. Without a body plan it will be difficult. Lavery makes mention that this is one of the first plans showing the waterlines. With the waterlines it can be done, but if you have no experience in naval architecture and drafting it would be tough project. RMG makes mention of Deane's Doctrine in their description so it could be very helpful as well.

If you move up to a sixth rate (20-28 carriage mounted guns) there are over 75 high resolution detailed drawings on the Wiki Commons site and hundreds in low resolution on the RMG Collections website. Give a shout if you would like a list of these vessels' drawings. These are all from about 1758 to 1827. Lacking a contract there are full sets of scantlings for British ships built beginning from 1719 into the 19th century that you would find useful. There are a number of wonderful kit builds of the HMS Enterprise (28) 1774 here at SoS that might be worth looking at as well. The kit can be built as a warship or as a receiving ship without masts and guns as contemporary plans for both are available to supplement the kit information.
Allan
 
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Where to start? It looks like you need to first learn some basic concepts that most of us take for granted. For example, scale is simply the ratio between the size of the model and its component parts, and those of the real ship. For example at the common scale of 1:48, a 1ft part would be
1ft x 12in /48=0.25 in. Buy a cheap simple calculator and put it on your workbench to do the math. Eventually this will become second nature.

With due respect to Corsair I do not recommend David Antsherl’s excellent books as a starting point for your model. These are aimed at highly experienced modelers wishing to replicate the actual detailed British Admiralty construction features down to the last treenail. Also, I find Antsherl to be a better model builder than clear explainer of his overall construction process. By your own admission you are no where near the level to build the model using his book.

A more simplified approach that will still produce a worthwhile model has been developed by the late master model Harold Hahn. A beginner following his system will have a better chance of success. SOS member Dave currently has a School For Shipwrights Class building a model using Hahn’s system. READ THIS THREAD FROM THE BEGINNING!

Wising you success

Roger
 
Corsair said:
I would recommend that you get the books by Davd Antscherl called "The Fully Framed Model, HMN Swan Class Sloops" as a decent place to start this build. However, you have not told us anything about what you currently have. How many ship models have you built?

From your comment about researching the "skeleton" of the ship of the "ribbing" specifically, I'm going to gather that you do not have much experience with ship building knowledge but are looking at creating what we refer to as a "Plank on Frame" model.

Other things in addition to the design of the ship that you need to consider are the needed tools, the different types of wood to make it out of, and even the different types of adhesives you want to use. Even setting up a shop to create your masterpiece. Yes, you will need some sort of space to build this as it will be significant in size. I'm currently building a 6th rate ship, the HMS Enterprise 1774 and the hull alone, without the bowsprit is over 36" long and almost a foot wide.
The Swan is a slightly smaller ship but these books will provide information to all the topics I've listed above and then some.
View attachment 564332
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Yeah your on point. I've done other models before but just not wooden model ships. I've always taken an interest In ships and have been doing drawings and watercooler panting of them and I mostly have taken an interest in early submarines. And about wood , I did do research on the type of wood I would like to get, I did go for "boxwood" as a nice option and did find a form about what glues to use. I don't have that many serous tools ether. And I did get "boxwood" from this art store that had an architecture section, but I didn't know much about at the "boxwood" specifically so I don't even know if its boxwood any more. the supplier is this company https://budnosenmodels.com/catalog.html.
 
UssIntelagentFIsh said:
Yeah your on point. I've done other models before but just not wooden model ships. I've always taken an interest In ships and have been doing drawings and watercooler panting of them and I mostly have taken an interest in early submarines. And about wood , I did do research on the type of wood I would like to get, I did go for "boxwood" as a nice option and did find a form about what glues to use. I don't have that many serous tools ether. And I did get "boxwood" from this art store that had an architecture section, but I didn't know much about at the "boxwood" specifically so I don't even know if its boxwood any more. the supplier is this company https://budnosenmodels.com/catalog.html.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Perhaps you mean basswood?
 
Roger Pellett said:
Where to start? It looks like you need to first learn some basic concepts that most of us take for granted. For example, scale is simply the ratio between the size of the model and its component parts, and those of the real ship. For example at the common scale of 1:48, a 1ft part would be
1ft x 12in /48=0.25 in. Buy a cheap simple calculator and put it on your workbench to do the math. Eventually this will become second nature.

With due respect to Corsair I do not recommend David Antsherl’s excellent books as a starting point for your model. These are aimed at highly experienced modelers wishing to replicate the actual detailed British Admiralty construction features down to the last treenail. Also, I find Antsherl to be a better model builder than clear explainer of his overall construction process. By your own admission you are no where near the level to build the model using his book.

A more simplified approach that will still produce a worthwhile model has been developed by the late master model Harold Hahn. A beginner following his system will have a better chance of success. SOS member Dave currently has a School For Shipwrights Class building a model using Hahn’s system. READ THIS THREAD FROM THE BEGINNING!

Wising you success

Roger
Click to expand...

dockattner said:
Hmm. Perhaps you mean basswood?
Click to expand...
yeah my bad
 
I think your initial question has been a bit distracting from the actual situation.
I know nothing about you except to extrapolate from what you have written.
One is that you are thinking about using this project as your introduction to this very peculiar field.
UssIntelagentFIsh said:
I've done other models before but just not wooden model ships.
Click to expand...
Building wooden ship models is not a linear progression from other types of modeling. It is at least 10 times more difficult and that includes a requirement to learn a body of specialized and arcane knowledge. Experience with fine woodworking gives a serious leg up. Other popular forms of modeling are of little or no help. Plastic kits probably are a negative path in. It produces expectations for what is provided by a kit that are not realistic. The attrition rate for would be beginners is so high that if outside investment was involved it would not exist. Instead, unsuccessful first time kit builders are probably the major profit point.

The blunt answer is that you appear to have no idea that you do not know just how much you do not know. If true, you are far from alone in this. It is the situation with the vast majority of beginners in wooden ship modeling. Conflating Basswood with Boxwood is akin to confusing silver colored plastic to Platinum.

I see the appeal of the subject that you present. It is a tad bit seductive. The problem is that it is a post doc level project, not a beginner lever --unless you are a savant. A savant would probably introduce himself by showing the completed model instead of asking questions about how to build it. This is definitely in the category of - if you have to ask, you are not prepared.

There is enough information in the plan for me to build the framed hull - but then what? There is no information about the stern. No information about the location of the deck at the side. Much of the model would be pure speculation. It is not something that an academic should consider.

This vessel is smack dab in the middle of a major evolutionary change in RN shipbuilding practices, methods, and focus. It was not until the leadership of George Anson much later that actual order and direction was instituted. The vessel could be from an unsuccessful branch.
 
DAWarden-(Jaager) said:
I think your initial question has been a bit distracting from the actual situation.
I know nothing about you except to extrapolate from what you have written.
One is that you are thinking about using this project as your introduction to this very peculiar field.

Building wooden ship models is not a linear progression from other types of modeling. It is at least 10 times more difficult and that includes a requirement to learn a body of specialized and arcane knowledge. Experience with fine woodworking gives a serious leg up. Other popular forms of modeling are of little or no help. Plastic kits probably are a negative path in. It produces expectations for what is provided by a kit that are not realistic. The attrition rate for would be beginners is so high that if outside investment was involved it would not exist. Instead, unsuccessful first time kit builders are probably the major profit point.

The blunt answer is that you appear to have no idea that you do not know just how much you do not know. If true, you are far from alone in this. It is the situation with the vast majority of beginners in wooden ship modeling. Conflating Basswood with Boxwood is akin to confusing silver colored plastic to Platinum.

I see the appeal of the subject that you present. It is a tad bit seductive. The problem is that it is a post doc level project, not a beginner lever --unless you are a savant. A savant would probably introduce himself by showing the completed model instead of asking questions about how to build it. This is definitely in the category of - if you have to ask, you are not prepared.

There is enough information in the plan for me to build the framed hull - but then what? There is no information about the stern. No information about the location of the deck at the side. Much of the model would be pure speculation. It is not something that an academic should consider.

This vessel is smack dab in the middle of a major evolutionary change in RN shipbuilding practices, methods, and focus. It was not until the leadership of George Anson much later that actual order and direction was instituted. The vessel could be from an unsuccessful branch.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking time out of your day to responding to my comment. But my question is now where do I start?
 
UssIntelagentFIsh said:
Thank you for taking time out of your day to responding to my comment. But my question is now where do I start?
Click to expand...
I would start with reading about how to start with this hobby. Especially the beginners corner.

Beginners Corner - How to Get Started

Beginners Corner - How to Get Started
shipsofscale.com

There are a few good books. I found this very valuable for starting.

There are also many many you tube videos about all aspects of this hobby.

I personally bought on deep discount a cross section of the USS Constitution. Looking at it and its instructions I realized it was out of my league. I have done plastic modeling for many years but this is a whole new ball of wax.

I recommend starting with the model expo 3 ship shipwright series. They can be bought as individual kits, and come with or without a basic set of tools. You can download and look at the building instructions from the model expo site first if you want to get an idea of what each involves. there are also you tube videos and many build logs on this site of those kits to aid you. That is what I basically did and am glad I started there.

www.modelexpo-online.com

Model Shipways Shipwright 3 Kit Combo Series with Tools, Glue and Pain

Learn to build a fine wood boat and ship models. Start with an 1800's traditional fisherman's Dory at Skill Level 1. Included are 24 pages of instructions, tools, paint, and glue for your first build. Continue at Skill Level 2 with a fully planked historic Norwegian Pram. Finally, the Muscongus...
www.modelexpo-online.com www.modelexpo-online.com

Rob
 
What sort of workshop do you have? A reason why many forum members build kits is that for one reason or another they do not have a well equipped workshop. Unlike building plastic models, you cannot scratch build a wooden ship model on your kitchen table. You will as a minimum need some way to cut, drill, and shape wood. While I know that spectacular ship models have been built in the past under primitive conditions, most of us today have access to some sort of powered equipment.

BTW: After reading this don’t go and buy a Dremel tool!

Roger
 
Roger Pellett said:
What sort of workshop do you have? A reason why many forum members build kits is that for one reason or another they do not have a well equipped workshop. Unlike building plastic models, you cannot scratch build a wooden ship model on your kitchen table. You will as a minimum need some way to cut, drill, and shape wood. While I know that spectacular ship models have been built in the past under primitive conditions, most of us today have access to some sort of powered equipment.

BTW: After reading this don’t go and buy a Dremel tool!

Roger
Click to expand...
I do have a 3 foot art table and a basement but that's about it.
 
Rob444 said:
I would start with reading about how to start with this hobby. Especially the beginners corner.

Beginners Corner - How to Get Started

Beginners Corner - How to Get Started
shipsofscale.com

There are a few good books. I found this very valuable for starting.

There are also many many you tube videos about all aspects of this hobby.

I personally bought on deep discount a cross section of the USS Constitution. Looking at it and its instructions I realized it was out of my league. I have done plastic modeling for many years but this is a whole new ball of wax.

I recommend starting with the model expo 3 ship shipwright series. They can be bought as individual kits, and come with or without a basic set of tools. You can download and look at the building instructions from the model expo site first if you want to get an idea of what each involves. there are also you tube videos and many build logs on this site of those kits to aid you. That is what I basically did and am glad I started there.

www.modelexpo-online.com

Model Shipways Shipwright 3 Kit Combo Series with Tools, Glue and Pain

Learn to build a fine wood boat and ship models. Start with an 1800's traditional fisherman's Dory at Skill Level 1. Included are 24 pages of instructions, tools, paint, and glue for your first build. Continue at Skill Level 2 with a fully planked historic Norwegian Pram. Finally, the Muscongus...
www.modelexpo-online.com www.modelexpo-online.com

Rob
Click to expand...
Thanks for giving me a place to start I probably should have scaled down before jumping head first into a new hobby.
 
UssIntelagentFIsh said:
But my question is now where do I start?
Click to expand...
I - like most everyone here with some experience have opinions about where to start - mostly from using a rectorspectroscope - ie. what I wish I knew when I was beginning. I do not feel qualified to give proper direction and I did not presume above. I was and am sure that those more qualified will help. I am glad that my ripping the tape off quickly was taken as being in your better interest.
A big open ended question like the one above is too broad. Breaking down your possible interests into small parts and asking about each part will more likely get you a more effective set of directions.
 
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