Thank you, Roger.
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What Makes a Ship Model Valuable to Others?
- Thread starter dockattner
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Thank you for sharing your personal experience of being a part of the HH legacy, Dave.
Don't say that to the good Drs. Kreigstein!
(I suppose you could buy a Navy Board model somewhere as an investment, but for the moment, I'm holding onto my Nvidia stock. )
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I'd have to say that Harold's model for his naked lady etching is a bit too hairy for my taste. To each his own, I suppose.
I think one of the biggest problems with ship models in the fine arts market is their size, shape, and fragility. You can't just bring them home in the trunk of your car and hang them on the wall. Despite the rich getting richer these days, there just aren't that many mansions with huge rooms that can accommodate something like a 1:48 period warship without causing the interior decorator indigestion.
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There are some 'drivers' that occur with ordinary folks that I'm not hearing much about in these discussions. Not to take away from collector or academic interest in ship and boat models, but the variety of reasons that people would want a model is wide. For starters, I don't think I've seen many ship models
in people's homes or offices that didn't have some specific connection to the owner. Here are some examples. This model is of the shrimp boat my father in-law named for me and my wife. I like this J-boat model because my uncle let me crew for him on his big sailboat. My great grandfather helped build this giant speedboat in Michigan. I built 300 boats like this one for Montgomery Ward. My favorite novel when I was a kid was Sailing Around the World Alone. I always wanted a boat just like this, so I built a model of it.
And then, there are these. I'm starting this model because the other one wasn't much of a challenge. I buy from this kit producer because I like working with my hands and would like to do several of them. I like the sense of accomplishment. What I don't hear from people about boat and ship models is how much they might be worth.
What you say is entirely true if the concept of "others" as in "What makes a ship model valuable to others?" is interpreted broadly. In fact, just about anything could make a ship model valued by somebody. God knows, a look at some of the ship modeling sites on Instagram, FaceBook, and Reddit, etc., compels that conclusion. Construing the question sensibly, however, compels the conclusion that the essential consistently reliable determinant of the value of a scale ship model is the degree of its quality as Napier enunciates it:
"A high-quality scale ship model provides a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy."
Each model speaks for itself and stands alone upon its own merits. The higher the quality as defined, i.e., the more a model provides a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy, the more it will be valued by knowledgeable people. That's it in a nutshell. Higher quality scale ship models are worth more than lower quality scale ship models. Simple as that.
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Yes, apparently. The car in your signature logo is a 'valuable' collector item and hats off to you. I had one of those in the 60's and turned it into a bad boy. The look satisfied my teenage yearnings and the mods satisfied my builder desires. I wound up selling it for a trice. If I had it today (untouched) it might list and sell for a handsome figure. I did the math on the same time and effort put into an investment with a decent Lipperer average over 60 years and came up really short. Same thing with my Steve McQueen watch.Apparently price can sometimes have nothing to do with quality and accuracy:
48” NAVIS Galleon – Executive Redwood Ship Model, Museum Attributed RARE | eBay
Executive-Grade Redwood Galleon (Circa 1980s–2000s). • ✅ Redwood body construction (rare, ultra-light, historically accurate). • Redwood or padauk-bodied construction. The core construction and joinery remain intact, and the piece is fully reassemblable.ebay.us
Somebody in Chicago got a 140mph+ Healey that didn't fly apart when you pushed it, and somebody in the Philippines has a Nazi chronograph in like new condition. What I do have is the satisfaction of it all, and I can write about it. and it seems like enough. Since my first reading of the thread, I am more in favor of the many opinions that have come up. Bravo to everyone!
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Agreed, if it's very cold or dried out....
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The following is what an AI query came up with to add to the discussion.
When it comes to model ships, value is a tale of two very different worlds: decor vs. fine art. Most model ships you see in homes or antique malls are "decorator models." While they look great on a mantle, they rarely hold significant resale value. However, a select few are considered "museum quality" and can sell for more than a luxury car.
Here is what determines where a model ship falls on that spectrum.
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When it comes to model ships, value is a tale of two very different worlds: decor vs. fine art. Most model ships you see in homes or antique malls are "decorator models." While they look great on a mantle, they rarely hold significant resale value. However, a select few are considered "museum quality" and can sell for more than a luxury car.
Here is what determines where a model ship falls on that spectrum.
1. The Build Method: Kit vs. Scratch
This is the single biggest factor in valuation.- Mass-Produced Kits: Models built from plastic (Revell) or even common wooden kits (Model Shipways) are generally worth only a fraction of the time it took to build them. They are valued as home decor, usually ranging from $50 to $500.
- Scratch-Built: These are made entirely from raw materials (wood planks, brass wire, thread) using historical blueprints. A master-level scratch-built ship is a unique work of art and can command $5,000 to $50,000+.
2. Historical Accuracy & Detail
Serious collectors look for "technical truth."- The "Rigging" Test: Does the rigging actually work according to 18th-century naval physics, or is it just string glued to a stick?
- Materials: High-value models use boxwood, pearwood, or even bone (from the famous "Prisoner of War" era). Cheap models often use "fuzzy" wood or low-grade metals that corrode over time.
- Admiralty Style: Some of the most valuable models are "Navy Board" or "Admiralty" style—built with no hull planking so you can see the internal "ribs" and structural framing of the ship.
3. Provenance & The "Stradivari" Builders
Just as a painting is more valuable if it’s a Picasso, a ship model is worth more if built by a recognized master. Names like Donald McNarry, Philip Reed, or Harold Hahn are the "rockstars" of the hobby. Their work is in museums, and their pieces are blue-chip investments.4. Rarity & Antiquity
- Prisoner of War (POW) Models: Created by Napoleonic-era prisoners using soup bones and hair. These are incredibly rare and can fetch $10,000 to $40,000.
- Builder’s Models: These were original models made by shipyards before the real ship was built to show the owners what they were buying. A 12-foot builder's model of the RMS Mauretania famously sold for over $200,000.
The "Is it Valuable?" Checklist
If you’ve found a model and are wondering if it’s a hidden treasure, look for these signs:| Likely Decor (Low Value) | Likely Fine Art (High Value) |
| Rough, "fuzzy" string for rigging | Fine, scale-appropriate line/wire |
| Shiny, thick "clunky" paint | Muted, realistic finishes |
| Generic name (e.g., "The Pirate") | Specific historical vessel with documentation |
| Glue visible at the joints | Precision joinery (looks like one piece) |
| Dust and "shelf wear" | Housed in a custom glass/mahogany case |
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The AI is regurgitating some old myths and some of it is specious.
When this is broken down to a dollars per hour, it is probably more financially rewarding to have spent the time doing a job that requires wearing a paper hat and asking "Do you want fries with that?"
It is probably more than sufficient to use scale appropriate domestic species of wood. The current obsession with a few species that were practical 300 years ago is becoming absurd. What is sold as Boxwood now is a scam as far as the name is concerned. It is not Buxus sempervirens. Anyone fortunate enough to obtain actual Buxus should reserve it for carving and small scantling deck furniture so delicate that the strength is needed. The Pear referred to above - Pyrus communis - makes sense in Europe but for North America the cost is mostly prohibitive. There is a type of Pear readily available in most of North America. The logs should be free since the whole family is now considered invasive. It just has to be self milled. It is the once ornamental Pyrus calleryana. The wood itself is at least as good as "Swiss Pear" or its unsteamed version.
The framing of these models has nothing to do with the actual structural framing of the ships that they represent. It has an artistic and functional purpose. It has nothing to do with the engineering of the swimming body.
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Dean, Your comments are exactly right as they relate to those of us who understand what makes a quality ship model. As a naval architect, it is interesting and curious that MasterCA’s checklist does not include anything about accuracy of the model’s hull lines to the real thing.
The question, however, is about what makes them valuable to someone else. Unfortunately value, or more correctly what someone else is willing to pay for one, is driven by intangibles and sometimes the situation. Remember the make believe aristocrat who commissioned someone to buy 20 feet of books to decorate his library. People able and willing today to buy ship models today often commission professional decorators who know nothing about ships or ship models to decorate their spaces.
And then, there’s always the banana taped to the wall!
Roger
The question, however, is about what makes them valuable to someone else. Unfortunately value, or more correctly what someone else is willing to pay for one, is driven by intangibles and sometimes the situation. Remember the make believe aristocrat who commissioned someone to buy 20 feet of books to decorate his library. People able and willing today to buy ship models today often commission professional decorators who know nothing about ships or ship models to decorate their spaces.
And then, there’s always the banana taped to the wall!
Roger
Why do we keep running into the same wall and repeatedly invoking the term “high-quality models”? 
Why do we insist on dividing models into categories, calculating their cost, and worrying about how others might judge them?
The real question was, and still is, what makes a ship model valuable to others? If a model is built by a friend and given to you, does it suddenly lose value because it cannot be priced or ranked? Do you really measure its worth by calculating the cost of materials, or by judging an unscaled block or a less-than-perfect rigging?
If someone gives you a ship model for your birthday, does it have less value because it was built from a kit, wood, or plastic, instead of being scratch-built from rare (difficult to obtain) plans? Must a model cost thousands of dollars to be considered valuable, or contain ten thousand nails in the hull to somehow increase its worth?
Perhaps the problem is not the models themselves, but our habit of trying to quantify value where value could be personal, emotional, educational, or inspirational. A model can be valuable because it represents time shared, skills learned, creativity expressed, or passion sustained, someone's memory, none of which can be reliably measured in money, materials, or microscopic or scaled/materials details, IMHO.
Why do we insist on dividing models into categories, calculating their cost, and worrying about how others might judge them? The real question was, and still is, what makes a ship model valuable to others? If a model is built by a friend and given to you, does it suddenly lose value because it cannot be priced or ranked? Do you really measure its worth by calculating the cost of materials, or by judging an unscaled block or a less-than-perfect rigging?
If someone gives you a ship model for your birthday, does it have less value because it was built from a kit, wood, or plastic, instead of being scratch-built from rare (difficult to obtain) plans? Must a model cost thousands of dollars to be considered valuable, or contain ten thousand nails in the hull to somehow increase its worth?
Perhaps the problem is not the models themselves, but our habit of trying to quantify value where value could be personal, emotional, educational, or inspirational. A model can be valuable because it represents time shared, skills learned, creativity expressed, or passion sustained, someone's memory, none of which can be reliably measured in money, materials, or microscopic or scaled/materials details, IMHO.
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Jim, I build models for my own satisfaction. I don’t enter them in competition because by the time that I finish one, I consider that I know more about the subject than the judges do. (My models all of rarely modeled subjects). I also don’t spend time worrying about what they’re worth or what will happen to them eventually.
The question, however, involved the value of some models relative to others and a reasonable assumption is that this involved money. My post was offered in that context.
Roger
The question, however, involved the value of some models relative to others and a reasonable assumption is that this involved money. My post was offered in that context.
Roger
Hi, Roger. By speaking to Jim, I assume you respond to me? If this is the case, here are my thoughts on your post.
Your post is actually making two separate points: First, you speak as a Naval architect (professionally trained in hull design), so from your perspective, it’s striking that any checklist of “quality” would omit hull-line accuracy. To someone with that background, the fairness of lines and fidelity to the original vessel are foundational. That’s a technical definition of quality. But then you pivot...
You remind us that the original question was about value to someone else, which often means the market value, what someone is willing to pay.
And market value is frequently detached from technical excellence. It’s influenced by context, perception, decor trends, the buyer’s motivations, and even status signaling. Your example of the aristocrat buying books by the linear foot illustrates that objects are sometimes purchased as visual props, not for their intrinsic merit.
And the “banana taped to the wall (BTW my favorite)” is almost certainly a reference to Comedian by Maurizio Cattelan - a conceptual artwork that sold for a staggering price. Technically simple. Conceptually provocative. Market value? Enormous. Craftsmanship? Not the point.
Your argument isn’t dismissing craftsmanship. It’s separating: Technical quality (accuracy, lines, execution) and Market value (what someone is willing to pay). Those two sometimes. but not always. overlap each other.
In fact, your post indirectly reinforces my concern: when we talk about “value to others,” we must clarify whether we mean aesthetic appreciation, emotional meaning, educational worth, or financial price. Because once money enters the room, hull lines may matter less than interior design trends.
Your post is actually making two separate points: First, you speak as a Naval architect (professionally trained in hull design), so from your perspective, it’s striking that any checklist of “quality” would omit hull-line accuracy. To someone with that background, the fairness of lines and fidelity to the original vessel are foundational. That’s a technical definition of quality. But then you pivot...
You remind us that the original question was about value to someone else, which often means the market value, what someone is willing to pay.
And market value is frequently detached from technical excellence. It’s influenced by context, perception, decor trends, the buyer’s motivations, and even status signaling. Your example of the aristocrat buying books by the linear foot illustrates that objects are sometimes purchased as visual props, not for their intrinsic merit.And the “banana taped to the wall (BTW my favorite)” is almost certainly a reference to Comedian by Maurizio Cattelan - a conceptual artwork that sold for a staggering price. Technically simple. Conceptually provocative. Market value? Enormous. Craftsmanship? Not the point.
Your argument isn’t dismissing craftsmanship. It’s separating: Technical quality (accuracy, lines, execution) and Market value (what someone is willing to pay). Those two sometimes. but not always. overlap each other.
In fact, your post indirectly reinforces my concern: when we talk about “value to others,” we must clarify whether we mean aesthetic appreciation, emotional meaning, educational worth, or financial price. Because once money enters the room, hull lines may matter less than interior design trends.
There's always one in every crowd!
Actually, you can polish a turd. Petrified dinosaur turds are a semi-precious stone that polishes up quite nicely. They make bead necklaces out of it. It's called coprolite. I bought my wife a coprolite bead necklace. It's just so her!
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Anything else is is personal. It is locked in the head of the person doing the valuation. It does not effect anyone else. We can easily concede that valuation exists. There is no practical purpose in discussing this aspect outside a forum focused on human psychology.
For here, I would think that a major area of interest in this subject would be someone trying to justify an expenditure on a large, complex, not really as realistic as presented, over priced kit that has seduced them. A given is that the expenditure would have a non-trivial effect on budget. Another given is that there is more than one person involved with the budget.
An objective exercise of the complex equation that this is produces a result: no valid justification exists from a financial basis and that it is purely self indulgence. There is nothing bad about doing the expenditure knowing this - except within the budget team. It does this someone no favor in letting them delude themself or worse in encouraging it.
Hiding or discouraging the knowledge and discussion of the real situation redounds only in favor if those who make money from selling an expensive illusion.
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in the spirit of Chris Rock: Sure, you can try that. That does not mean that it is a good idea.
You are 4 points behind, last 2 min of the game,
you could start on your own 40 and pour everything you have into it and possibly score a TD: scratch
or
you could purposely earn two sequential 15 yard penalties, backing you up to your own 5 yard line and have your two best offensive players thrown out of the game for the way you asked them to foul. You COULD still score a TD: kit
But why have to deal with the extra grief when you do not have too? It is like you really don't want to win.
Why do we keep running into the same wall and repeatedly invoking the term “high-quality models”?
Speak for yourself.
"Dividing things into categories," valuing them, and worrying whether others agree with our assessments are just what human beings do. Have you ever watched a two-year-old play with their toys? Nobody teaches them, yet one of the earliest play behaviors we exhibit, even before we mature developmentally to social play with others, is "organizing" things. Appearances in some instances notwithstanding, nobody sets out to build a crappy ship model, so whenever we see a model, we immediately "categorize" it as to quality: "How well does this model "provide a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy?" is the standard I apply to any model in making my determination of its quality. How much it is worth isn't of interest to me unless somebody wants me to appraise its monetary value. The first question I ask myself is "Does it have anything to teach me?"The only thing that makes a ship model valuable to me is whether I can learn something from it. Unless I am contemplating buying or selling or appraising a ship model upon request, I generally have no interest whatsoever in what makes a ship model valuable to others because there are as many answers to that question as there are "others" who might find a ship model valuable, as you have noted. Every model speaks for itself as to how good it is or isn't.
As for monetary value, there are an unlimited number of factors which may affect an appraisal. Ignoring variables unique to the purchaser, and other obvious valuation criteria such as material condition, provenance, and antiquity, generally speaking, the closer a fine art high-quality scale ship model approaches perfection in "providing a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy," the more money it is likely to sell for.
What problem? A model is either good, or it isn't, as judged against the commonly recognized "compelling impression" standard which has been around in one form or another for decades now. Models are intrinsically valuable based upon how well they satisfy the definition of the thing: "A high-quality scale ship model provides a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy," Every model speaks for itself as to how good it is or isn't. What a willing seller will take for it from a willing buyer can only be an educated guess and not a very educated guess at that. This is true of any work of fine art and a lot of other things as well.
Football comparisons aside, the statement that taking a kit and modifying it into a detailed an accurate model can never be as good as an all scratch built kit makes no sense. I doing just that. My build log is proof that it can work. My model's purpose is not to make a ton of money at some auction. It's to fulfill the dreams and desires of the builder. How many of you build models with the sole purpose of selling them for money?
Modifying a kit model is a shortcut to the planning and development of plans that will all end up at the same place, a well made model. The kit may not be perfect, or even good, but it can still save lots of time in the design development phase of building a model. With researched changes to materials and design elements, the end result is nothing like the model build as intended by the kit instructions. Is it valued by model critics as much as a scratch built model at some maritime art convention? No. It doesn't have to be.
The reputation of the builder is not solely a function of the capability of the builder, just as not all great actors win an Oscar. Who know's you has a lot to do with your reputation. If reputation is the goal, then building is not a hobby, it's a job.
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