AGORA Constitution

[Spars]

Do any modelers here know about AGORA's Constitution? I came across their site the other day. Is the model a true representation? Has anyone attempted or complete this ship?

 

[AllanKP69]

Is the model a true representation?

Hi Spars,

Looking at their photos the answer is no. The kit appears to have the same basic mistakes seen in many other kits.
Examples -
They mention the use of oak and mahogany. These are inappropriate as they are so grainy at our scales. Even when painted over, these little dents or pores in the wood will be visible.
Hand sewn sails - The seams are way out of scale in their ad photo
Out of scale gratings
Oversized belaying pins
Incorrect ships boats features
Incorrect anchor stocks
A hand rail in the waist --If you want her to look like she did when changed in the 20th century this would be good to have. These were added on the actual Connie during the 1927–1931 renovation, If you want her to look like when she was launched they don't belong.

It is as if no one at this company has done any serious study of what ship construction was actually like when she was active. Other than replacing all the planking materials, the other items can probably be corrected if you enjoy researching and kit bashing. For a recommendation of which Constitution kit to buy, maybe consider reaching out to Dr. Herzog and his curatorial staff at the Constitution museum. He has been very helpful with questions I have asked in past years, so maybe their team can give their more learned opinion on which kit, if any, is a true representation.

Allan

 

[Spars]

Hi Spars,

Looking at their photos the answer is no. The kit appears to have the same basic mistakes seen in many other kits.
Examples -
They mention the use of oak and mahogany. These are inappropriate as they are so grainy at our scales. Even when painted over, these little dents or pores in the wood will be visible.
Hand sewn sails - The seams are way out of scale in their ad photo
Out of scale gratings
Oversized belaying pins
Incorrect ships boats features
Incorrect anchor stocks
A hand rail in the waist --If you want her to look like she did when changed in the 20th century this would be good to have. These were added on the actual Connie during the 1927–1931 renovation, If you want her to look like when she was launched they don't belong.

It is as if no one at this company has done any serious study of what ship construction was actually like when she was active. Other than replacing all the planking materials, the other items can probably be corrected if you enjoy researching and kit bashing. For a recommendation of which Constitution kit to buy, maybe consider reaching out to Dr. Herzog and his curatorial staff at the Constitution museum. He has been very helpful with questions I have asked in past years, so maybe their team can give their more learned opinion on which kit, if any, is a true representation.

Allan

Blue Jacket's Constitution is named them official kit of the U.S.S. Constitution Museum. How valid is their offering?

 

[g8rfan99]

I am currently working on BJ's Constitution myself. I can say that for the most part, it is a very accurate representation of how she was in 1812. There are a few discrepancies. The stern for one is incorrect. They supply a photo etched transom that incorporates features from a few time periods. I personally used the transom from the Revell plastic kit, which is more accurate to the time. Also, the bow rails. The instructions describe the rails as they are now, coming up under the cathedral. Although anesthetically i think this looks really good, this was not the case in 1812. Again, I used the Revell model for guidance. The only other criticism I have is the instructions. They are very vague at times and are really meant more as a guide (for an experienced modeler) than explicit instructions. The kit comes with alot of very detailed Brittania metal parts. These are very nicely detailed, but i find painting them tolook like real wood is sometimes challing. Unfortunately, none of these parts are labelled, so you have to figure out what some of them are. Also, the wood strips all come packaged together, so again, you have to go through and size everything, which is not so easy on the smaller dimensions.
It is a good kit, and I have to admit I am a total newbie and completely insane for taking it on as my very first build, but here I am.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[Spars]

I am currently working on BJ's Constitution myself. I can say that for the most part, it is a very accurate representation of how she was in 1812. There are a few discrepancies. The stern for one is incorrect. They supply a photo etched transom that incorporates features from a few time periods. I personally used the transom from the Revell plastic kit, which is more accurate to the time. Also, the bow rails. The instructions describe the rails as they are now, coming up under the cathedral. Although anesthetically i think this looks really good, this was not the case in 1812. Again, I used the Revell model for guidance. The only other criticism I have is the instructions. They are very vague at times and are really meant more as a guide (for an experienced modeler) than explicit instructions. The kit comes with alot of very detailed Brittania metal parts. These are very nicely detailed, but i find painting them tolook like real wood is sometimes challing. Unfortunately, none of these parts are labelled, so you have to figure out what some of them are. Also, the wood strips all come packaged together, so again, you have to go through and size everything, which is not so easy on the smaller dimensions.
It is a good kit, and I have to admit I am a total newbie and completely insane for taking it on as my very first build, but here I am.

Good luck with your choice.

Thanks for your feedback Bluejacket it is. BJ is the kit approved by the Constitution Museum.

 

[AllanKP69]

t is a good kit, and I have to admit I am a total newbie and completely insane for taking it on as my very first build, but here I am.

You are not alone. For me a plastic Connie kit while on a 90 day voyage on a freighter from NYC to the Far East and back, then 12 years later, Victory in wood, scratch,,,,,,, twice!!!! Wish we had groups like this and the internet back in the day.
Allan

 

[Roger Pellett]

For anyone wanting to build a model of the USF Constitution representing her period of historic significance (1815 and earlier) the information is readily available. The US Government has published fold out drawings from the National Archives in the book Barbary Wars: Personnel and Ships Data. This is long out of print but used copies can be found. Naval Architect Thomas Gillmer discusses and illustrates changes over time in her appearance in his excellent book Old Ironsides, and French painter Antoine Rouix known for accurate depictions of sailing vessels painted a well known portrait of either Constitution or her sister President as she appeared while serving in the Mediterranean in 1805.

In the 1920’s Constitution underwent a major repair. There is a photo of her out of the water with all of her planking removed. At that time they made detailed drawings of her. These drawings have been made available to the public. In the 1990’s a set on a CD was available free for the asking. Unfortunately, this drawing set documents her as she appeared in the 1920’s. Nobody made the effort to redraw them to remove changes made to over the past 100+ years.

The kit manufacturers appear to have used these 1920 era drawings for the basis for their kits. Despite advertising hype, I know of no kit that builds an 1812 or earlier Constitution. Two revealing features; her stern and ugly Victorian era head rails are discussed in Frank’s post above.

Roger

 

[Spars]

You are not alone. For me a plastic Connie kit while on a 90 day voyage on a freighter from NYC to the Far East and back, then 12 years later, Victory in wood, scratch,,,,,,, twice!!!! Wish we had groups like this and the internet back in the day.
Allan

No one here badmouths the beginner. We learn from moistakes

 

[g8rfan99]

I hear that. I would never have gotten as far as I have without the help of some wonderful people here and all the info available on the internet, especially the USS Constitution Museum ( https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/modeler-resources/ )

Spars, if after getting the BJ kit you have any questions, I am here to help. Have you ever done a solid hull model before?

 

[Roger Pellett]

If the USS Constitution Museum really wants to be helpful they should clean up their website. They hint that Constitution as she exists is a “cleaned up” 1920’s version but really don’t say so. Also, anyone knowledgeable about ships’ boats would agree that the downloadable plans from the website build boats from the 1900 boat book, not 1812 or earlier.

Roger

 

[Roger Pellett]

A used copy of Barbary Wars; Personnel and Ships Data containing Fold out drawings of National Archives drawings for the 44 gun frigates and other Barbary Wars vessels is available from Amazon $50.

Roger

 

[g8rfan99]

Hi Roger
Interesting point about the boats. What do you recommend for learning about what the 1812 version should look like?

 

[Roger Pellett]

Howard Chapelle includes drawings for, selected US. Navy boats in an appendix to his History of The American Sailing Navy. Earliest example is c1820 but better than 1900.

Roger

 

[g8rfan99]

That's close enough for me. Thanks

 

[Spars]

For anyone wanting to build a model of the USF Constitution representing her period of historic significance (1815 and earlier) the information is readily available. The US Government has published fold out drawings from the National Archives in the book Barbary Wars: Personnel and Ships Data. This is long out of print but used copies can be found. Naval Architect Thomas Gillmer discusses and illustrates changes over time in her appearance in his excellent book Old Ironsides, and French painter Antoine Rouix known for accurate depictions of sailing vessels painted a well known portrait of either Constitution or her sister President as she appeared while serving in the Mediterranean in 1805.

In the 1920’s Constitution underwent a major repair. There is a photo of her out of the water with all of her planking removed. At that time they made detailed drawings of her. These drawings have been made available to the public. In the 1990’s a set on a CD was available free for the asking. Unfortunately, this drawing set documents her as she appeared in the 1920’s. Nobody made the effort to redraw them to remove changes made to over the past 100+ years.

The kit manufacturers appear to have used these 1920 era drawings for the basis for their kits. Despite advertising hype, I know of no kit that builds an 1812 or earlier Constitution. Two revealing features; her stern and ugly Victorian era head rails are discussed in Frank’s post above.

Roger

I'll look it up