HMS Sovereign of the Seas - Bashing DeAgostini Beyond Believable Boundaries

[Jacapa412]

Here's an update on the stern taffrail decorations. The pile of weapons at the feet of Victory still need to be added.
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Hi Kurt,
You’re doing an excellent job, my friend. But you know what really catches my eye? I’m wondering if it would be possible to carve those figures out of wood instead of making them in resin with a 3D printer. What do you think? Would that be too crazy an idea? I’ve also had the thought of perhaps not using any of the metal ornaments that come with the kit. I’ve seen other models online, including some on display in naval museums that are made entirely of wood, and in my opinion, they look spectacular. Although, I do agree that on the original ship, all those ornaments were covered in gold leaf.

 

[Jacapa412]

Finished more grotesque faces on the stern counter. I'm actually getting better at making these using images off the web.
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Image used.
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Height mapped 3-D onject made using 2-D photo.
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Progress so far.
View attachment 596221

take a look Kurt!!
This might help you in some way.

 

[CharlieT]

Hi Kurt,
You’re doing an excellent job, my friend. But you know what really catches my eye? I’m wondering if it would be possible to carve those figures out of wood instead of making them in resin with a 3D printer. What do you think? Would that be too crazy an idea? I’ve also had the thought of perhaps not using any of the metal ornaments that come with the kit. I’ve seen other models online, including some on display in naval museums that are made entirely of wood, and in my opinion, they look spectacular. Although, I do agree that on the original ship, all those ornaments were covered in gold leaf.

Jacapa412
Well, some folks have carved the decorations out of wood. There is a build log by modelshipwright on SOS that shows many of them, and its author published a booklet on carving. Most of the information about this model was on MSW, and I don't know if it's been uploaded since the crash.

Below is a photo of another model where the decorations were carved. This model is by Arthur Molle.


As you probably already know, carving these decorations will take years, and many have tried but few have completed them,

 

[Jacapa412]

Jacapa412
Well, some folks have carved the decorations out of wood. There is a build log by modelshipwright on SOS that shows many of them, and its author published a booklet on carving. Most of the information about this model was on MSW, and I don't know if it's been uploaded since the crash.

Below is a photo of another model where the decorations were carved. This model is by Arthur Molle.
View attachment 607752

As you probably already know, carving these decorations will take years, and many have tried but few have completed them,

Hi Charlie
well, maybe I didn't phrase the question correctly. Would it be possible to make those elements using a CNC machine not a 3D printer? That would be ideal, but I'm not sure—since the parts are so small, maybe it can't be done.

 

[CharlieT]

Well, I can't answer that one. I have no experience with CNC.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

take a look Kurt!!
This might help you in some way.

View attachment 607744

Heck YEAH that helps! Those have much more detail than the photos of the painting I am currently using, although some of the carving details are different than what appears in the Lely painting. THANKS! Got any more like this?

I threw that picture straight into the Bildeform plugin in Blender and this is the best result. Still quite crude.


Compare that to my interpretation from images of the Lely Painting. The lack of detail in those source images cause several deviations in the carvings. My interpretation has the distinct advantage of having more boobs. As you all know, sailors can never have enough of those.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Jacapa412
Well, some folks have carved the decorations out of wood. There is a build log by modelshipwright on SOS that shows many of them, and its author published a booklet on carving. Most of the information about this model was on MSW, and I don't know if it's been uploaded since the crash.

Below is a photo of another model where the decorations were carved. This model is by Arthur Molle.
View attachment 607752

As you probably already know, carving these decorations will take years, and many have tried but few have completed them,

This picture is a great source for interpreting how the carvings on the bulkheads may have appeared. Great information to work from! Thanks @CharlieT !

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hi Charlie
well, maybe I didn't phrase the question correctly. Would it be possible to make those elements using a CNC machine not a 3D printer? That would be ideal, but I'm not sure—since the parts are so small, maybe it can't be done.

You'd have to use a very finely grained wood to make CNC carved bas reliefs for the decorations. I had to decide which way to go, use a CNC machine and learn how to use it or resin print using my past experience in 3-D computer modeling as a head start in creating the carvings. I believe the resin printer will be able to make finier details than using a CNC to carve wood.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hi Kurt,
You’re doing an excellent job, my friend. But you know what really catches my eye? I’m wondering if it would be possible to carve those figures out of wood instead of making them in resin with a 3D printer. What do you think? Would that be too crazy an idea? I’ve also had the thought of perhaps not using any of the metal ornaments that come with the kit. I’ve seen other models online, including some on display in naval museums that are made entirely of wood, and in my opinion, they look spectacular. Although, I do agree that on the original ship, all those ornaments were covered in gold leaf.

You could carve them out of wood, as many have. Janos (Bill Short) made a splendid model of the Sovereign in wood tone using wooden carvings, but that limits the amount of small details you can put into the decorations. For me, that limitation will come from the resolution of the resin printer. The Elegoo Saturn 4 printer is a 12k printer, which is fine enough. A fully wood tone model like Jano's has the appeal of being made in tradition modelling materials, and that in itself places it squarely in the realm of artwork.

 

[Jacapa412]

You'd have to use a very finely grained wood to make CNC carved bas reliefs for the decorations. I had to decide which way to go, use a CNC machine and learn how to use it or resin print using my past experience in 3-D computer modeling as a head start in creating the carvings. I believe the resin printer will be able to make finier details than using a CNC to carve wood.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

View attachment 607863

Where did you find this? How large is this figure?

 

[Jacapa412]

Where did you find this? How large is this figure?

HAHAHAHAHA! I knew you’d like it just as much as I did! There’s this thing called AI, with a little help, it creates excellent photos. The only problem is that when the original image isn't very clear or is out of focus, the AI ends up creating distorted shapes or something completely different. I managed to create that specific photo by basing it on this original black-and-white image from McKay's book.
Don't go by the size; I think that if you intend to use it, you'll need to adjust it to the scale you want.
Cheers amigo

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

HAHAHAHAHA! I knew you’d like it just as much as I did! There’s this thing called AI, with a little help, it creates excellent photos. The only problem is that when the original image isn't very clear or is out of focus, the AI ends up creating distorted shapes or something completely different. I managed to create that specific photo by basing it on this original black-and-white image from McKay's book.
Don't go by the size; I think that if you intend to use it, you'll need to adjust it to the scale you want.
Cheers amigo

View attachment 607940

Impressive. It added so many details to McKay's image! But can it generate a 3-D model?

 

[janos]

HAHAHAHAHA! I knew you’d like it just as much as I did! There’s this thing called AI, with a little help, it creates excellent photos. The only problem is that when the original image isn't very clear or is out of focus, the AI ends up creating distorted shapes or something completely different. I managed to create that specific photo by basing it on this original black-and-white image from McKay's book.
Don't go by the size; I think that if you intend to use it, you'll need to adjust it to the scale you want.
Cheers amigo

View attachment 607940

Hi Jack,
That AI picture looks stunning! There are so many details in it that a carved version (such as mine) can't come even close to it. Another question is of course how can this beautiful picture be 'realized' in 3D print. I used to work on SolidWorks for 17 years, but exclusively on 'mechanical' projects, so generating pictures and then printing them is way out of my capabilities. I made lots of models and part models, (stern model), and all of the decorations of all of them were carved. I wasn't able to go with carving that far than Ivan Trtanj or Bill (modelshipwright), but I think I reached a reasonable level of quality. I always stuck to natural wood appearance (even if I would make some of them differently today), just with a few exceptions by using gold leaf or recently golden paint.
At the moment I am recovering from a hip replacement surgery.
Janos

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hi Jack,
That AI picture looks stunning! There are so many details in it that a carved version (such as mine) can't come even close to it. Another question is of course how can this beautiful picture be 'realized' in 3D print. I used to work on SolidWorks for 17 years, but exclusively on 'mechanical' projects, so generating pictures and then printing them is way out of my capabilities. I made lots of models and part models, (stern model), and all of the decorations of all of them were carved. I wasn't able to go with carving that far than Ivan Trtanj or Bill (modelshipwright), but I think I reached a reasonable level of quality. I always stuck to natural wood appearance (even if I would make some of them differently today), just with a few exceptions by using gold leaf or recently golden paint.
At the moment I am recovering from a hip replacement surgery.
Janos

Heal up fast Janos!

 

[Jacapa412]

Hi Jack,
That AI picture looks stunning! There are so many details in it that a carved version (such as mine) can't come even close to it. Another question is of course how can this beautiful picture be 'realized' in 3D print. I used to work on SolidWorks for 17 years, but exclusively on 'mechanical' projects, so generating pictures and then printing them is way out of my capabilities. I made lots of models and part models, (stern model), and all of the decorations of all of them were carved. I wasn't able to go with carving that far than Ivan Trtanj or Bill (modelshipwright), but I think I reached a reasonable level of quality. I always stuck to natural wood appearance (even if I would make some of them differently today), just with a few exceptions by using gold leaf or recently golden paint.
At the moment I am recovering from a hip replacement surgery.
Janos

Hi Janos,
Obviously much as we might wish those figures could turn out with such intricate detail making them by hand would never quite be the same. I initially started generating these figures from photos just out of curiosity, but I’ve noticed that some of them come out distorted and bear no resemblance to the originals. Even though I studied architecture, I never took an interest in 3D software, which is why I don't know how to use any of it. Changing the subject, I don't know how old you are, but for your peace of mind: my grandfather had hip surgery at the age of 82, and I never once saw him walk sideways or limp. He passed away at 87, and the hip operation never caused him any trouble. I wish you a speedy recovery. As for me, I'll keep experimenting here to see if Kurt and I can manage to create something interesting heheheh.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hi Janos,
Obviously much as we might wish those figures could turn out with such intricate detail making them by hand would never quite be the same. I initially started generating these figures from photos just out of curiosity, but I’ve noticed that some of them come out distorted and bear no resemblance to the originals. Even though I studied architecture, I never took an interest in 3D software, which is why I don't know how to use any of it. Changing the subject, I don't know how old you are, but for your peace of mind: my grandfather had hip surgery at the age of 82, and I never once saw him walk sideways or limp. He passed away at 87, and the hip operation never caused him any trouble. I wish you a speedy recovery. As for me, I'll keep experimenting here to see if Kurt and I can manage to create something interesting heheheh.

Hey... it MIGHT work out!

 

[Heinrich]

@DARIVS ARCHITECTVS @Jacapa412

Gentlemen, gentlemen ... what the two of you are doing is, in my humble opinion, what SOS should be all about.

One the one hand, Kurt stands alone when it comes to such sheer determination and conviction to create his vision of the SOTS. I never cease to be amazed at the resilience and dedication that you exhibit towards your modeling subject. And that comes from the time of reconstructing the entire hull, planking and arming every single deck right down to the last detail, to what you are doing now recreating all the decorations. And then comes along @Jacapa412 with a genuine desire to be of assistance - not just in words, but also in deeds. This is much along the same lines of what Waldemar and I are doing in recreating De Zwane.

I tip my hat to the both of you and all I can say is Doe zo voort!

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

@DARIVS ARCHITECTVS @Jacapa412

Gentlemen, gentlemen ... what the two of you are doing is, in my humble opinion, what SOS should be all about.

One the one hand, Kurt stands alone when it comes to such sheer determination and conviction to create his vision of the SOTS. I never cease to be amazed at the resilience and dedication that you exhibit towards your modeling subject. And that comes from the time of reconstructing the entire hull, planking and arming every single deck right down to the last detail, to what you are doing now recreating all the decorations. And then comes along @Jacapa412 with a genuine desire to be of assistance - not just in words, but also in deeds. This is much along the same lines of what Waldemar and I are doing in recreating De Zwane.

I tip my hat to the both of you and all I can say is Doe zo voort!

Vielen Dank, Heinrich!

So many of our members assist with each other's projects. Mine is a long puzzle to try to parse through the bits of information and guesswork to attempt to create a model which is not accurate in every construction and dimension aspect, but within my personal abilities as an intermediately skilled modelmaker, who's dream has been since I was very young to create a sailing ship which can capture my imagination. There are many more skilled modelers on this forum who are better at painting, finishing, and keeping their work neater (e.g. Paul Kattner, Nigel, Janos, and several others), and my model will not appear to be as neat, but it will reflect the sheer force of will of the maker in the pursuit of detail. There are things I could have done to make the model better, such as use more expensive and better wood (e.g. pear instead of cherry and walnut).

This effort to model the Sovereign of the Seas is unique, and so are styles of other modeler' work which I admire. What we all seem to share, even the beginners just starting to hone their skills, is that inspiration to create a nice ship model to enjoy. All of us also share an admiration for aspects of each other's work, which, as you touched upon, is the very soul of this forum. @Jacapa412 is just the latest contributor to this build.

Our Admin, @Donnie has not stifled our expression to mere academic discussion. The Ships of Scale forum is different from others in that we are free to joke around and enjoy each other's banter as well as discuss the talking points of modeling, and that is what makes this community more friendly and fun than other forums, and that makes our hobby so much richer. Thanks to all the members who add comments to this build as it progresses. In a way, it is your build as well because of all the ideas, information (@CharlieT ), suggestions, corrections, and humor you have all contributed.

I can't wait to get this computer modeling phase over with so the decorations can be printed and physical work resumed on the hull! however, this work will not be rushed... unless I get terminal cancer or something else that tends to create some urgency.

Kurt

 

[Jacapa412]

@DARIVS ARCHITECTVS @Jacapa412

Gentlemen, gentlemen ... what the two of you are doing is, in my humble opinion, what SOS should be all about.

One the one hand, Kurt stands alone when it comes to such sheer determination and conviction to create his vision of the SOTS. I never cease to be amazed at the resilience and dedication that you exhibit towards your modeling subject. And that comes from the time of reconstructing the entire hull, planking and arming every single deck right down to the last detail, to what you are doing now recreating all the decorations. And then comes along @Jacapa412 with a genuine desire to be of assistance - not just in words, but also in deeds. This is much along the same lines of what Waldemar and I are doing in recreating De Zwane.

I tip my hat to the both of you and all I can say is Doe zo voort!

Vielen Dank Heinrich, for your kind words. Even though I’ve arrived late to the party, I’ve actually been admiring both the *SOTS* and the *Soleil Royal* for a very long time, in my opinion, two of the most spectacular ships of that era. Just imagine: my eldest daughter hadn't even been born yet when I was already contemplating purchasing the *SOTS* subscription to build it! I was still living in Germany back then today she is 20 years old , and I believed that acquiring it that way would be the most affordable route to building this majestic model. Now that I’ve finally purchased my *SOTS* kit, I’ve started digging deeper and gathering information about this ship, and guess what? I stumbled upon this wonderful forum. So here I am: taking notes, studying up, and why not? lending my support to fellow builders in their creative endeavors. As a designer myself, I would love to see my *SOTS* adorned with the finest decorative details available; I see that Kurt and Gus from @SeasModels are focusing on these very details and contributing to their improvement, to be honest with you, I don't care for the original cast parts at all they are horrible also the quality. For now, I’ll remain in contact with the creators as I continue to experiment. Gruss