Cast Brass Nameplate

[Bluemaxone]

Can anyone help me find a supplier for a nameplate for my large model of USS President? I can cast in pewter but cannot find letters in relief to make the pattern. I attach a photo similar to what I want. Thanks for any help!

 

[Rob444]

It would probably be easier to have it 3D printed.

Rob

 

[Bluemaxone]

Tried that, and I agree. However, it came out way larger than my specs. I need someone who can do the whole shebang (produce the pattern anyway)...not just give me a formula that I must then take to a vendor who is only interested in volume orders.

 

[TheGatzby]

Forgive me if I am giving you information you already know, but I am going over the requirements as I see them.

To cast in brass you will need a model to make a mold.
You said you tried 3D printing but it was too big. Did you print it or have someone else do it?

Usual print files are .stl 3D files.

They are pretty easy to re-scale in applications like Blender or even within the printing software. I'm sure there are online apps that will rescale for you.

We have many SOS members who are into 3D printing. Perhaps someone can do it for you for a fair cost.

 

[Bluemaxone]

I have real problems getting into all the software stuff...it is a "blind" endeavor for me as I cannot confirm dimensions of the final product (at my knowledge level). One member generously supplied me with a 3DP file. It was the wrong size and so we went back and forth several times. I decided to stop the project as it was clear the transfer of information was in error and was irritating him.

Ideally, I would just like a 3D printed prototype to my specs so i can cast it. The letters would have to be backward for this to work.

I am certainly willing to pay for a prototype.

 

[TheGatzby]

Hopefully someone into 3D printing will step up.

It should be a simple job for someone with moderate 3D printing skills. All they should need is the size of the letters and the font.

What is the actual height of the letters you are looking for? What is the font?

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

I attach a photo similar to what I want.

That brass badge - it does not look at all real. It looks like something on a nautical souvenir shop starving artist kitsch sorta looks like a ship thing.

A standing relief badge carved from wood would look better - and can be thinner.
Ideal would be Buxus - which is almost impossible to get,
Castelo which is still available,
Dogwood which you have to harvest,
many of the harder fruitwood species - also harvest yourself - if you have Pyracantha with a thick enough trunk - season and shave- it is sure hard enough.
but if you are careful about the grain I think Hard Maple would do the job.

Chisels --
Ramelson - what with the generational change in control - has far fewer sizes - but for big cuts -excellent
Dockyard - the brand name may have been sold - wide choice - not economy priced
Jewelers gravers - engraving blades using a common handle - thick looking but the edge is just as sharp - GRS is good

Rio Grande is one of many choices https://www.riogrande.com/search-pa...rande.com/search-page/?q=gravers&tab=products

You can always make your own mini chisels -- just start with good steel and learn about tempering.

 

[Signet]

That brass badge - it does not look at all real. It looks like something on a nautical souvenir shop starving artist kitsch sorta looks like a ship thing.

Not sure I agree with that, but it could be better. If it doesn't look good enough, a better 3D plate would certainly be good enough. Any produced 3D plate the wrong size can easily be made the right size.

A standing relief badge carved from wood would look better - and can be thinner.

To become a master miniature carver to produce a single nameplate certainly seems like overkill. And your wood may be thinner than the above, but certainly not thinner than 3D printing can produce.

Ideal would be Buxus - which is almost impossible to get,
Castelo which is still available,
Dogwood which you have to harvest,
many of the harder fruitwood species - also harvest yourself - if you have Pyracantha with a thick enough trunk - season and shave- it is sure hard enough.
but if you are careful about the grain I think Hard Maple would do the job.

Now we're chopping down rare trees and kiln- or air-drying them to produce that nameplate before carving them? That sounds like the most excessive of overkills.

I've done wood carving (full size, not scale). It takes expensive tools and the knowledge to use them. Oh, and experience. Miniatures like this are another product entirely. We have incredible carvers on this site, but I, and most here, are not among them.

If an included part from a kit, or the closest/best part we can obtain from suppliers, is not to our satisfactory to our needs or quality, I feel 3D printing can be an excellent substitute. Easier, quicker, cheaper and probably with a better result than becoming a lumberjack, lumber miller and experienced woodcarver, forsaking the model that the nameplate was needed for.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

Now we're chopping down rare trees and kiln- or air-drying them to produce that nameplate before carving them? That sounds like the most excessive of overkills.

Ah! but once the first step is taken it could lead to a jump to the dark side.
It is a possible solution - not at all practical unless someone from the dark side is a mentor with gifts - for a one-off

For this one-off the problem is getting the Maple with the needed dimensions. The carving tools can be made from steel knitting needles and broken hacksaw blades. If not heat treated and quenched at the correct color it just means more frequent stropping.

If plastic anything is allowed by your rules a 3D print may be the efficient answer to it.

I wonder which Ramillies is the model in the picture?
1749 90?
1763 74?
1785 74?

I found it 1763 74 - ""museum quality"" cold cast bronze decorations - for sale
For this particular purpose - my money is on 3D printing being able to do the decorations - faster, for less money, zero physical work
A 3D printing shop may find a customer at that model building shop.

 

[Bluemaxone]

Hopefully someone into 3D printing will step up.

It should be a simple job for someone with moderate 3D printing skills. All they should need is the size of the letters and the font.

What is the actual height of the letters you are looking for? What is the font?

Times Roman 11 or 12 pt should do it. The name should stretch to about 2.5 in. (kerning) The border of the nameplate would extend beyond that. P R E. S I D E N. T

 

[Bluemaxone]

Ah! but once the first step is taken it could lead to a jump to the dark side.
It is a possible solution - not at all practical unless someone from the dark side is a mentor with gifts - for a one-off

For this one-off the problem is getting the Maple with the needed dimensions. The carving tools can be made from steel knitting needles and broken hacksaw blades. If not heat treated and quenched at the correct color it just means more frequent stropping.

If plastic anything is allowed by your rules a 3D print may be the efficient answer to it.

I wonder which Ramillies is the model in the picture?
1749 90?
1763 74?
1785 74?

I found it 1763 74 - ""museum quality"" cold cast bronze decorations - for sale
For this particular purpose - my money is on 3D printing being able to do the decorations - faster, for less money, zero physical work
A 3D printing shop may find a customer at that model building shop.

Yes, I am not a master builder like many on this forum...i am in awe of you all, actually. Use of 3D printing so i can make the mold to produce a right-reading product is completely workable for me. If anyone on the forum can help me with that I will be very appreciative. Thank you

 

[Bluemaxone]

That brass badge - it does not look at all real. It looks like something on a nautical souvenir shop starving artist kitsch sorta looks like a ship thing.

A standing relief badge carved from wood would look better - and can be thinner.
Ideal would be Buxus - which is almost impossible to get,
Castelo which is still available,
Dogwood which you have to harvest,
many of the harder fruitwood species - also harvest yourself - if you have Pyracantha with a thick enough trunk - season and shave- it is sure hard enough.
but if you are careful about the grain I think Hard Maple would do the job.

Chisels --
Ramelson - what with the generational change in control - has far fewer sizes - but for big cuts -excellent
Dockyard - the brand name may have been sold - wide choice - not economy priced
Jewelers gravers - engraving blades using a common handle - thick looking but the edge is just as sharp - GRS is good

Rio Grande is one of many choices https://www.riogrande.com/search-pa...rande.com/search-page/?q=gravers&tab=products

You can always make your own mini chisels -- just start with good steel and learn about tempering.

Jaager I had not thought of it as looking like a kitsch thing, but you are probably correct. We hate those models in those shops, don't we? Well, with my lack of skills in the area of which you speak, I'm hoping the rest of the model will help bail out the overall impression so that the name plate turns out to be more or less insignificant. The ship was designed by the Quaker Joshua Humphries, and in those days they probably used wood, yes. Unfortunately I do not have the carving skills.

If i cast in pewter from a 3D product, do you have any suggestions as to how to make it look more authentic, like wood?

 

[Bluemaxone]

Forgive me if I am giving you information you already know, but I am going over the requirements as I see them.

To cast in brass you will need a model to make a mold.
You said you tried 3D printing but it was too big. Did you print it or have someone else do it?

Usual print files are .stl 3D files.

They are pretty easy to re-scale in applications like Blender or even within the printing software. I'm sure there are online apps that will rescale for you.

We have many SOS members who are into 3D printing. Perhaps someone can do it for you for a fair cost.

Yes, its an .stl extension. I will go back and see if i can find it. No, never had anyone actually try to print it. I only found companies that print for industry, so hundreds or thousands of copies. I just have this one little product I need.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

Jaager I had not thought of it as looking like a kitsch thing, but you are probably correct. We hate those models in those shops, don't we?

MSW - before crash #2 had a regular industry with family members who inherited one seeking information about these "valuable antique ship models" and how many thousands of dollars they are worth or how to clean dust, dirt and layers of tobacco film and or cooking oil.
No one was ever kind enough to say that they are not an actual ship model in the sense that we use that term. No one would say "Viking funeral" either.

If i cast in pewter from a 3D product, do you have any suggestions as to how to make it look more authentic, like wood?

Short of actually carving it from wood I have no idea.
There are rub on letter transfer sheets that may have an acceptable font at an acceptable size. More fool proof than hand lettering.

Hey! maybe you could mix PVA with chalk powder or something similar. Or even epoxy in place of PVA. Xacto has chisel blades that could carve that.
A 3x5 card may be a good enough field for the raised lettering and easy to fit to a curved stern. If properly prepped and painted who would know?

 

[Signet]

If i cast in pewter from a 3D product, do you have any suggestions as to how to make it look more authentic, like wood?

If the original on the ship was painted, and it most certainly was, after painting your model there is no way to tell what it is made of in this scale, so any material should produce good facsimile. Unless you wanted to keep the pewter in it's original shiney state, I see no reason to cast it in pewter instead of using the original 3D part, but that's your decision of course. I believe the 3D part would be better detailed than a pewter casting from it.

If the STL file you have looks good, simply ask a shop or someone with a 3D printer to make it in X.XX size, and it's done. You can even make it thicker or thinner (also making the letters stand out more or less).

 

[Roger Pellett]

Are you sure that the actual ship ever had her name painted on her stern? If the nameplate does not enhance the appearance of your model and a gift shop type name plate does not, it’s better to leave it off.

Sometimes less is better.

Roger

 

[Signet]

If you believe Google AI:

did the ship uss president have its name on the stern of the ship?

Yes, the USS President did have its name on its stern. [1, 2, 3]
Like its five sister ships (including the USS Constitution and USS United States), the USS President followed the standard shipbuilding and naval customs of the late 18th and early 19th centuries: [1, 2]

Name Placement

• The Transom (Stern): The name "PRESIDENT" was painted or carved directly onto the flat transom area at the very back of the ship, usually just beneath or integrated into the decorative stern galleries and windows. [1, 2, 3]
• No Names on the Bow: In 1800, warships did not have their names painted on the sides or the bow of the hull. The bow was reserved for a prominent, custom-carved decorative wooden figurehead. [1, 2, 3]

Visual Proof from History
When the British Royal Navy captured the USS President in 1815, they were so impressed by its speed and design that they took detailed architectural drawings ("lines") of the hull and stern. They later built an exact replica named HMS President. Both original period models and 19th-century marine paintings—such as those depicting the ship's final battle—confirm the placement of the name prominently on the stern gallery

 

[Roger Pellett]

Standard naval practice: I have read that there was a period during the late 1700’s and early 1800’s when the Royal Navy did not paint names on their ships. I don’t know if the USN followed this practice.

Anyhow, if you choose to put a name on the stern of your model, a homemade decal or dry transfer letters would be your best bet.

Roger

 

[Signet]

The USS President was a sister ship of the USS Constitution, one of six sister ships completed around 1800. We can therefore assume that naming of all were similar. Here's a stern view of the Constitution taken in the early 1900s:

And here's one present day:

It's obvious that:

• The name was on the ship (USS President)
• The font was a simple non-serif font, with additional kerning
• The letters were raised on a somewhat fancy backboard
• The backboard was raised from the hull
• The center of the backboard was /not/ recessed, with only a raised outline

I think that's pretty much all you need for the design of the nameplate.

 

[Signet]

Here's a nameplate you might be able to use, in the style of the USS Constitution:



And here's the STL file. It's currently sized for 5.5" wide, but you can tell the person making it exactly what size you want it.

Hope this helps. If the curve doesn't match or something, let me know.