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Question about plans of the Harriet Lane

  • Thread starter Thread starter DocTom
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DocTom

DocTom

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I aam currently building the Model Shipways kit of the USRC Harriet Lane. I tracked down and ordered the plans for the Harriet Lane in the Smithsonian National Museum of American History. They are basically a rigging plan, drawn in 1964 by Merritt Edson. There is a structure on the bulwarks that I can't identify. They don't appear to be belaying pin racks, as those are clearly identified. Here are the plans:Rigging Plan.jpeg

And here is what I'm talking about:
Mystery Structures.jpeg
Mystery 2.jpeg

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
I saw this over at MSW and I was waiting for someone more informed to comment.

My uneducated guess is some sort of kevel, for temporarily securing some heavy lines. Perhaps for mooring. What looks like a port just to the right, might be where a mooring line would pass through.
I went all through the instruction book, and I don't' see them on the model.
 
TheGatzby said:
My uneducated guess is some sort of kevel,
Click to expand...
I agree it is some sort of cleat. Below are drawings of cleats on page 170 of Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War. While your ship is not in the RN, maybe the parts would be named the same. I think the terms cavel and kevel are sometimes interchanged today, but regardless it is some sort of cleat. In the book Lees goes into belaying points for pins and all the types of cleats, but I doubt they would apply to your ship.
Allan
1785888788193.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Thanks to you both. The cavel cleat seems to match what is shown on the plans. I thought the oval openings in the bulwarks were scuppers, but @TheGatzby you may be right that they are for mooring lines. The belaying pin racks aren't in the instructions either. I may need to do some kit bashing when I get to the rigging!

Another question, does anyone know what this round structure is?
Rigging Plan (1).jpeg
It seems an odd place for a capstan, and John Tilley (who was commissioned by the US Coast Guard to draw this image of the Harriet Lane
IMG_0292.jpeg

thinks it unlikely she had a capstan, as she had a winch to haul the anchors. Could it be a round skylight? What would be the purpose of a capstan that far aft?

Thanks for any info.
 
I don't know if any will help but there are photos of her, and maybe drawings at the US Naval History and Heritage Command website.
Allan
 
FWIW, @The Gavel has a drawing that shows a capstan on the aft deck, but a bit forward of the location of your question.

USRC Harriet Lane Model Shipways 1:96 scale circa 1863 COMPLETED

What ho, shipmates! Welcome to the second dog watch (Central Standard Time)! This evening I hope to bring us all up to the current state of my Harriet Lane build. The short story is that I have finished all of the deck structures and added the railings to the ladders, the main deck house, and...
shipsofscale.com
 
Ok, just forward of the round object is a companionway. It would interfere with trying to use a capstan nearby. On the other hand, officers were traditionally quartered aft so I believe that the companionway leads to their quarters and the round object is a skylight to illuminate the wardroom or captain’s cabin.

Roger
 
TheGatzby said:
FWIW, @The Gavel has a drawing that shows a capstan on the aft deck, but a bit forward of the location of your question.

USRC Harriet Lane Model Shipways 1:96 scale circa 1863 COMPLETED

What ho, shipmates! Welcome to the second dog watch (Central Standard Time)! This evening I hope to bring us all up to the current state of my Harriet Lane build. The short story is that I have finished all of the deck structures and added the railings to the ladders, the main deck house, and...
shipsofscale.com
Click to expand...
He based that on these plans
IMG_0297.jpeg
Which have been mistakenly labeled online as the Harriet Lane. My research, which is in one of the early posts of my build log, indicates that this is another ship.
Tom
 
AllanKP69 said:
I don't know if any will help but there are photos of her, and maybe drawings at the US Naval History and Heritage Command website.
Allan
Click to expand...
Allan,
The website has multiple engravings and lithographs of the Harriet Lane from the 1860s to the 1890s mainly from magazines, but none have enough detail to be helpful. It’s also not clear how many if any are based on observation and not just an illustrator’s idea of what she looked like. The US Coast Guard Historian’s website has much the same info. She is apparently very poorly documented.
Tom
 
Roger Pellett said:
Ok, just forward of the round object is a companionway. It would interfere with trying to use a capstan nearby. On the other hand, officers were traditionally quartered aft so I believe that the companionway leads to their quarters and the round object is a skylight to illuminate the wardroom or captain’s cabin.

Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,
That's what I was thinking as well, so I think it will be a skylight. It will be a while before I have to make a decision.
Tom
 
I built the 1:144 scale Model Shipways Harriett Lane solid hull model way back in the mid 1960’s. The drawings and the kit do not provide for the auxiliary helm aft. The new kit does. The drawing that you posted above solves the mystery. It shows circular rings for a gun aft. Apparently someone used that drawing for the basis of the old kit.

Roger
 
The first item was correctly IDed as a cavel something like the one in this picture of the Pride of Baltimore, which is where one side of the main-sheet tied-off. See it back there under the boat, left of the tiller? Like Pride's, it's unlikely those shown on your plan have sheaves in them, they're basically just a big cleat.
1602130_413046408830482_850458125_o.jpg

The second thing is a round sky-light, something like this one on Constitution...
1785954685584.png
 
JerryTodd said:
The first item was correctly IDed as a cavel something like the one in this picture of the Pride of Baltimore, which is where one side of the main-sheet tied-off. See it back there under the boat, left of the tiller? Like Pride's, it's unlikely those shown on your plan have sheaves in them, they're basically just a big cleat.
View attachment 624206

The second thing is a round sky-light, something like this one on Constitution...
View attachment 624207
Click to expand...
Thanks Jerry. That all makes perfect sense.
Tom
 
Roger Pellett said:
I built the 1:144 scale Model Shipways Harriett Lane solid hull model way back in the mid 1960’s. The drawings and the kit do not provide for the auxiliary helm aft. The new kit does. The drawing that you posted above solves the mystery. It shows circular rings for a gun aft. Apparently someone used that drawing for the basis of the old kit.

Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,
If you look at Webb’s folio of plans he published in 1895, those plans are exactly the same as the America, later in the folio. These are his published plans for the Harriet Lane
IMG_0290.jpeg
Unfortunately, not very detailed. Nothing about the number of boats or the armament. The US Coast Guard Historian’s site says she carried:
Armament:
1858: 1 x 32-pdr pivot gun; 4 x 24-pdrs; 1 x 12-pdr
1861 (1 June): 3 x 32-pdrs; 4 x 24pdrs
1862 (Feb): 3 x 9”; 1 x 30-pdr
I don’t see how a pivot gun would fit on that deck with a companionway between the windlass and the foremast.
Most of the 19th century illustrations show her with 4 boats, but at least one (the earliest from 1863) shows her with two. John Tilley said she may have carried two boats when in the Revenue Service, and that boats, like guns, were added when she joined the Navy.
 
DocTom said:
The US Coast Guard Historian’s site says she carried:
Armament:
1858: 1 x 32-pdr pivot gun; 4 x 24-pdrs; 1 x 12-pdr
1861 (1 June): 3 x 32-pdrs; 4 x 24pdrs
1862 (Feb): 3 x 9”; 1 x 30-pdr
I don’t see how a pivot gun would fit on that deck with a companionway between the windlass and the foremast.
Most of the 19th century illustrations show her with 4 boats, but at least one (the earliest from 1863) shows her with two. John Tilley said she may have carried two boats when in the Revenue Service, and that boats, like guns, were added when she joined the Navy.
Click to expand...
This is how "The Gavel" built his model of the Lane. The diagram says the big pivot is a X inch gun, but all the text found says it's a IX inch gun, so Chuck went with that based on the photo of a IX Dahlgren on a pivot mount. (click to see larger)
harriett_lane_guns.jpg 1786307730182.png ix_dahlgren_pivot_mendota.png
His build-log is here on SoS.
 
Jerry,
I'm building her as launched in 1857. I found someone on Etsy who made me the 24 poundHowitzers and 32 pounder (plus the 12 pound boat howitzer) based on your .SML files (I don't have access to a 3D printer). I'll post pictures soon. I'm still puzzling out how a pivot gun would fit on the deck that Webb shows in his plans of 1857.

Tom
 
DocTom, if I make a parallel with the Russian sailing ships of the same time, it is actually a skylight....
 
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