ZHL San Felipe value for money?

[vossy]

Hi, I am seriously considering this model. I have seen many renditions of it on the web. A few questions if I may from anyone who has it. Is it good value for money? Whilst the cost of the model from ZHL is very reasonable, once postage is factored in it almost doubles here in Australia. Another thing I would be interested in is the carved wooden pieces to replace the kit supplied ones. These alone are more than double the kit price, so are they worth it? I have also read in some quarters that the instructions are somewhat sparse. Is this most people's view who have built it?

Thanks.

Chris

 

[vossy]

Hi, I am seriously considering this model. I have seen many renditions of it on the web. A few questions if I may from anyone who has it. Is it good value for money? Whilst the cost of the model from ZHL is very reasonable, once postage is factored in it almost doubles here in Australia. Another thing I would be interested in is the carved wooden pieces to replace the kit supplied ones. These alone are more than double the kit price, so are they worth it? I have also read in some quarters that the instructions are somewhat sparse. Is this most people's view who have built it?

Thanks.

Chris

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[Phillipsart]

I own this kit. Do I think it’s good value? Yes, I do.

Although not an easy kit to build. As the plans don’t exactly match. What’s supplied in the kit.

At least in my kit. It’s got parts missing and missing the CD and instructions. But to be honest you’re best looking at other builds here and follow those as a guide.

Another good source to help is the Mantua instructions for their SAN Felipe kit. I believe this kit is a copy of it.

I like the supplied, what appears to be resin printed ornaments. They are high detailed. Just need painting.

I don’t see any point in spending money on timber replacements.

 

[Phillipsart]

Here is the Mantua instructions.

 

[vossy]

Here is the Mantua instructions.

Thank very much for this. I am currently waiting on my San Bartolome from Pavel Nikitin but I always like to plan ahead and am almost set on the San Felipe from ZHL.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

The Mantua (originally Panart) kit probably has better quality wood. It's an old kit, but still a favorite and the instructions are decent. It's probably a better kit if you can afford it. Mine is old (1983) and was partially built. The wood is dry from age. The former owner passed away a few years ago, so I will complete his work. Some of the hull will have to be deconstructed to add a few details, and the deck planking is delaminating in a few spots and some parts are cracked and broken, but most of the model parts are there. Anything missing or damaged can be scratch built.

 

[vossy]

The Mantua kit may have better quality wood. It's an old kit, but still a favorite and the instructions are decent. It's probably a better kit if you can afford it.

Is the Mantua the exact same as the Panart kit? Same company I mean?

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Is the Mantua the exact same as the Panart kit? Same company I mean?

Yes. Mantua absorbed Panart decades ago. The San Felipe model originated some time in the early 1960's, presumably from Vincenzo Lusci. It was designed to be a typical Spanish triple decker from the 1740's, although Panart marketed the model incorrectly as an actual vessel from 1690. The historical account of San Felipe on the model kit's box is pure fiction. Even though the San Felipe never existed, the model may have been intended to represent the Real Felipe, a ship which did exist, but which there are no reliable illustrations of, only a few paintings which are complete guesswork on the part of the artists made many years later. Some modelers have renamed their models Real Felipe based on that supposed connection. For unknown reasons, illustrations of the great ships of Spain is scarce to non-existent.

 

[vossy]

Yes. Mantua absorbed Panart decades ago. The San Felipe model originated some time in the early 1960's, presumably from Vincenzo Lusci. It was designed to be a typical Spanish triple decker from the 1740's, although Panart marketed the model incorrectly as an actual vessel from 1690. The historical account of San Felipe on the model kit's box is pure fiction. Even though the San Felipe never existed, the model may have been intended to represent the Real Felipe, a ship which did exist, but which there are no reliable illustrations of, only a few paintings which are complete guesswork on the part of the artists made many years later. Some modelers have renamed their models Real Felipe based on that supposed connection. For unknown reasons, illustrations of the great ships of Spain is scarce to non-existent.

I did not know that the San Felipe was not a real ship. This has sort of made me question whether I actually want to do it now?

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I did not know that the San Felipe was not a real ship. This has sort of made me question whether I actually want to do it now?

That's what I thought too, being one interested in historical ships. However, aside from the stern balconies, the San Felipe follows Spanish 1st rate ship design close enough to make a proper representation. There are other Spanish ship models out there that are historical, such as Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad by OcCre by Artesania Latina, the Santa Ana by Artsania Latina, and Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion by Dusek Models. Or, you could do some research and modify the stern of San Felipe to a known design of a similar class vessel. The model of San Felipe has become sort of a legend among model builders because it is a beautiful design. The ship is not to far into fantasyland the it is equal to the Black Pearl. It was designed by someone who really knew something about ship design.

It's a pity that the model kit companies are not up front about the design's true origins. There are other ship kits that are also not based on a specific historical vessel, such as Lady Nelson by Vanguard Models, and Le Mirage by Corel. Like any hobby, if you seek authenticity, you have do do some research. That's precisely what this forum is here for, to help modelers with knowledge, enjoy the work of others, and enjoy a few jokes now and then.

I suggest you finish your San Felipe if you've started it. Your skills will improve dramatically. I plan on completing the one I inherited, and haven't decided if I want to add sails or not.

​

 

[Phillipsart]

There is one if you could say good thing about this. Especially if you post on Facebook groups.

No one can say you done this wrong. That rope is supposed to go through there and not where you tied it. That rope is 1mm to long. Yes it can get that bad.

We can all interpret this ship as we shall please.

 

[Aantaug]

Hi, I am seriously considering this model. I have seen many renditions of it on the web. A few questions if I may from anyone who has it. Is it good value for money? Whilst the cost of the model from ZHL is very reasonable, once postage is factored in it almost doubles here in Australia. Another thing I would be interested in is the carved wooden pieces to replace the kit supplied ones. These alone are more than double the kit price, so are they worth it? I have also read in some quarters that the instructions are somewhat sparse. Is this most people's view who have built it?

Thanks.

Chris

Hi Chris, I have bought 3 models from ZHL. First was the ZHL brand Black Pearl. The other 2 were sold by ZHL, but not made by them. The ZHL brand offered the best quality wood and the most enjoyment I ever experienced building ships. The other 2 were from ZHL but not their brand. They were other Chinese brands. The quality still seems better than most European or American brands who seem more interested in profit over quality.
I highly recommend ZHL branded products. I wouldn't recommend their more whimsical models though as they contain more resin parts than I prefer.

Happy modeling!
Anthony

 

[Stuart Little]

Thank very much for this. I am currently waiting on my San Bartolome from Pavel Nikitin but I always like to plan ahead and am almost set on the San Felipe from ZHL.

I can't say I like the look of that 'bare' wood, or rather it does not impress from the photos.

 

[LilyKroger]

Hi, I am seriously considering this model. I have seen many renditions of it on the web. A few questions if I may from anyone who has it. Is it good value for money? Whilst the cost of the model from ZHL is very reasonable, once postage is factored in it almost doubles here in Australia. Another thing I would be interested in is the carved wooden pieces to replace the kit supplied ones. These alone are more than double the kit price, so are they worth it? I have also read in some quarters that the instructions are somewhat sparse. Is this most people's view who have built it?

Thanks.
It reminds me of setting aside a budget for weekend entertainment where you want to make sure every dollar spent actually delivers genuine value. Speaking of smart spending and securing reliable payouts, checking out these https://gamblersay.net/ca/online-casino-reviews/fast-withdrawal/ Canadian fast payout casinos for quick gaming cashouts helps you clear funds without hassle so you can direct your hard-earned cash back into your favorite hobbies. At the end of the day, paying double for shipping or extra carved wooden details comes down to your personal building goals. If the base kit materials hold up well, sticking with the stock parts might just offer the best bang for your buck.
Chris

Honestly, if you're already looking at the ZHL kit, I’d stick with the standard resin/metal fittings that come in the box rather than dropping double the cash on the carved wood upgrades. The stock details take paint really well, and once it's up on the shelf, nobody is going to tell the difference.

 

[WilliamM]

Yes. Mantua absorbed Panart decades ago. The San Felipe model originated some time in the early 1960's, presumably from Vincenzo Lusci. It was designed to be a typical Spanish triple decker from the 1740's, although Panart marketed the model incorrectly as an actual vessel from 1690. The historical account of San Felipe on the model kit's box is pure fiction. Even though the San Felipe never existed, the model may have been intended to represent the Real Felipe, a ship which did exist, but which there are no reliable illustrations of, only a few paintings which are complete guesswork on the part of the artists made many years later. Some modelers have renamed their models Real Felipe based on that supposed connection. For unknown reasons, illustrations of the great ships of Spain is scarce to non-existent.

I'm glad that you mentioned the Real Felipe. I am convinced that San Felipe and Real Felipe are the same ship. Both names refer to Philippe V of the War of Spanish Succession. The Real Felipe was built between 1732 and 1740. The model shows features that were technically correct for that period. They are not of 1690, being too technically advanced for that early time.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I'm glad that you mentioned the Real Felipe. I am convinced that San Felipe and Real Felipe are the same ship. Both names refer to Philippe V of the War of Spanish Succession. The Real Felipe was built between 1732 and 1740. The model shows features that were technically correct for that period. They are not of 1690, being too technically advanced for that early time.

I am also finishing a Panart model of San Felipe, taking over from a builder who has passed away. I did some digging, looking to see if there were depictions of Real Felipe, so that the San Felipe could be converted to that actual ship of history, but there were none. That was probably the same dilemma that Vincenzo Lusci (presumeably) faced when attempting to model a Spanish three decker from that time period, and developed the San Felipe model. Strange how fictional vessels frequently become more popular to most people than actual ones, e.g. Black Pearl, Flying Dutchman, etc.

 

[WilliamM]

I am also finishing a Panart model of San Felipe, taking over from a builder who has passed away. I did some digging, looking to see if there were depictions of Real Felipe, so that the San Felipe could be converted to that actual ship of history, but there were none. That was probably the same dilemma that Vincenzo Lusci (presumeably) faced when attempting to model a Spanish three decker from that time period, and developed the San Felipe model. Strange how fictional vessels frequently become more popular to most people than actual ones, e.g. Black Pearl, Flying Dutchman, etc.

Kurt,

Also the Le Soleil Royal.

Please note that my avatar picture is of one depiction of the Real Felipe. I do have the San Felipe by ZHL. It is a nice kit, the wood is of high quality, but the kit does suffer some problems of other POB ship kits. For example, the cannon barrels are all of the same diameter. The blocks seem to be an incorrect size. However, I have found several sources to correct these issues. My kit came without the DVD with the instructions but Max at ZHL graciously replaced everything.

Anyway, I have decided that I will identify my model as the Real Felipe .

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Kurt,

Also the Le Soleil Royal.

Please note that my avatar picture is of one depiction of the Real Felipe. I do have the San Felipe by ZHL. It is a nice kit, the wood is of high quality, but the kit does suffer some problems of other POB ship kits. For example, the cannon barrels are all of the same diameter. The blocks seem to be an incorrect size. However, I have found several sources to correct these issues. My kit came without the DVD with the instructions but Max at ZHL graciously replaced everything.

Anyway, I have decided that I will identify my model as the Real Felipe .

I’m replacing the guns on the Felipe with ones of various size also. Kit simplifications like that beg to be fixed. You might as well change it to Real Felipe. It is my understanding that information on the details of of Spanish ships of that period is very slim, making bashing almost completely guesswork. Please post pics of your build!

 

[ubjs]

I’ve just read through the thread, and I’m a bit puzzled regarding the information about the *Lady Nelson*.
Isn’t that a kit from Amati, rather than Vanguard Models?

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I’ve just read through the thread, and I’m a bit puzzled regarding the information about the *Lady Nelson*.
Isn’t that a kit from Amati, rather than Vanguard Models?

Correct, the Lady Nelson is an Amati kit. The kit is not from an actual ship of the same name, but is represetnative of a standard cutter design from that time period.