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17th century ketch Nonsuch

Barnacle Bill said:
Hi, thanks for the info but what I should have said at the time was that I wanted the information so as to scratch build a scale model of the 1668 ketch 'Nonsuch'.
Click to expand...
Hallo
could you please check, if the year 1668 for launching this ketch is correct?
I find in this year only a 36 gunner fifth rate, the ketches listed are launched in 1651 and sold to the Navy in 1654

Screenshot 2023-07-03 125203.png

So I guess, because of the link to the Manitoba - you mean the Nonsuch launched in 1651


Find a ship

Find vessels by name, rate, type, nationality, number of guns, builder or designer, shipyard or operational base, acquisition and dates
threedecks.org

Did you check already this page?


there you can find a small size photo of a drawing - there is mentioned "Nonsuch Deck Plans - Hudsons Bay Archives" - maybe they have more drawings, so I would try to contact them

things1-n18-51-nonsuch-deck-plans-big.jpg
 
A few years ago I thought about building a model of the Nonsuch. As an obvious choice I wrote several emails to the Manitoba Museum, asking for the possibility of buying her plans. I never received an answer from them.
Janos
 
Hi, janos!
To console You, I would like to say that I do not quite agree with the design of the remake. I intend to modify the hull and rigging somewhat and bring them into line with the 17th century. The results will be posted later.
 
Archi said:
View attachment 382702
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Ciao, I managed to get a digital copy of the plans from the Manitoba Museum after a long wait.
Apart from the accuracy of the drawings, the thing that struck me most was the huge amount of data on the ship.
In this regard, I noticed that the various plans have 2 types of scales.
For those of a general nature, the ratio is 1/2 inch = 1 foot, so 1/24 scale.
While for those with the smallest details, the ratio is 1 inch = 1 foot, so 1/12 scale.
With this accuracy, it seems really strange to me, but I could be wrong, that the scale of the various tables is not specified, compared to the real ship.
As a test, I printed the first of the 19 drawings I received, without changing the scale settings or adaptation to the paper format for the printer.
The result was disconcerting, the ship immediately seemed very small to me, that is, the drawing was on a much larger scale than I would have expected.
I decided to try to compare it with the one in which you entered the measurement of 441 mm and I must say that in mine I found 212 mm, that is less than half.
At this point I ask if someone who has the same plans, can help me understand the exact reduction ratio to which I must set the printer to have drawings in the correct 1/24 scale.
I repeat that I have no problems with the size of the print, the plotter can reach a maximum width of 914 mm and a length of several meters.
I hope someone can help me, I love this ship and I think of making it in 1/24.
Even if my dream would include 1/12, which however for a small ship, would not be huge.
 
Uwek said:
Hallo
could you please check, if the year 1668 for launching this ketch is correct?
I find in this year only a 36 gunner fifth rate, the ketches listed are launched in 1651 and sold to the Navy in 1654

View attachment 382694

So I guess, because of the link to the Manitoba - you mean the Nonsuch launched in 1651


Find a ship

Find vessels by name, rate, type, nationality, number of guns, builder or designer, shipyard or operational base, acquisition and dates
threedecks.org

Did you check already this page?



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there you can find a small size photo of a drawing - there is mentioned "Nonsuch Deck Plans - Hudsons Bay Archives" - maybe they have more drawings, so I would try to contact them

View attachment 382695
Click to expand...
Nice one
 
If you want to build an accurate model of what Nonsuch probably looked like, it is not the replica on display in the Manitoba Museum. The best reference that I know of is Ian McLaughlan’s excellent book Sloop of War. He describes how these small 1600’s auxiliary vessels developed into full fledged warships.

The Dutch Artist Van De Velde’s drawings and paintings of the huge North Sea battles of the 1600’s between the English and Dutch also show these small ketches that accompanied the fleets. In an age when fire ships were potent weapons these ketches were useful for towing larger warships from danger.

These ketches of the era are always shown with round (or pinked) sterns where the wales do not end at a transom or bend up to a wing transom but instead end at the sternpost itself. The wing transom is above the wales with a trapezoidal shaped stern structure above. The rudder head would be either outboard or inboard of the stern structure depending on the design.

Another acclaimed British marine historian, the late David McGregor has also argued that in the 1600’s and into the 1700’s the term “ketch” was a description of hull form not rig. He then goes on to describe the various form of round sterns for vessels then in use.

Nonsuch is a replica of a vessel built by well meaning people where apparently no drawings were available as some of these smaller vessels were built in yards other than the Royal Dockyards. Unfortunately as an educational resource she has been overtaken by new research. She is behind the times!

Roger
 
I already had the hull, and only then did I notice some anachronisms.
Now I'm trying to build a more or less historically adequate catch with this hull.
 
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I'm still digging around and suddenly discovered something I hadn't noticed! I "found" information that the Nonsuch was a specially rebuilt vessel in 1668! The gist of the rebuild is this: originally a coastal armed merchant ketch, it was somehow adapted/rebuilt into an ocean-going expedition vessel. Which sailed across the Atlantic and returned successfully. Basically, Prince Rupert and company bought the Nonsuch (built in 1650) in 1668, already battered from its wild youth. And somehow rebuilt it. How, what, and where they rebuilt it—one can only speculate, which is what I'm doing.
 
The two photos are of a drawing that I made for one of these small ketches. The lines were developed using wooden moulds with radii calculated from information from Richard Ensor’s The Shipwright’s Secrets. While recurved stems are by no means unknown for small vessels, upon reflection the one in my drawing is exaggerated. If I were to use this drawing to build a model I would correct this. The hull would also have to be completely lofted.

Stupid Computer posted upside down and won’t let me correct it!
Roger

IMG_1158.jpegIMG_1162.jpeg
 
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