I apologize, but the topic seems to have strayed from the purpose of the title... I don't want to be the cause of such a fuss.
This entire thread has been fascinating, interesting, and just plain fun to follow, stray or not.
Allan
Having just read through all this, my two cents;
The definition of art: The expression of feelings and emotions through a physical medium. If you the builder feels you fulfill that criteria when building a model, then IMHO it is art. Whether you start from a kit or do everything including planting the tree that you build the model from is imaterial, it is all about self expression. Yes granted, one could argue if you build a kit exactly as the instructions then you are not expressing yourself. However whatever you inject into the model that is your choice then that changes things
If a model is not historically accurate does not mean it is not a work of art. Some of the most distinguished builders have their own style which strays from historical exactness in the pursuit of self expression. Yes as Dave points out Harold Hahn was one of them but there are many more and as Jimsky touches on, I could name numerous from Eastern Europe and Russia.
When talking about ship models as Art, there are also recognised styles of models that have been born from self expression.To list a few;
Hahn
Frolich
Belgian
Georgian
Russian Palace
I deliberately omit the French Arsenal model, this is everything about historical accuracy and less about the builders interpretation and emotions
I would also like to point out I have seen kit built models in UK museums so museum standard means nothing to me.
My final thoughts
Thousands play Golf in their spare time but have no intention of winning the Open
Most have played Football when they were younger but had no desire to be in the Team that Wins the World Cup
Unless you have a strong desire to win medals or sell models for a living, I think everyone would agree with me the main reason we do this hobby is for enjoyment .If you gain enjoyment and satisfaction pushing the boundaries of your abilities then that is your choice but not everyone's goal. Take it too seriously, it becomes just like the day job
The definition of art: The expression of feelings and emotions through a physical medium. If you the builder feels you fulfill that criteria when building a model, then IMHO it is art. Whether you start from a kit or do everything including planting the tree that you build the model from is imaterial, it is all about self expression. Yes granted, one could argue if you build a kit exactly as the instructions then you are not expressing yourself. However whatever you inject into the model that is your choice then that changes things
If a model is not historically accurate does not mean it is not a work of art. Some of the most distinguished builders have their own style which strays from historical exactness in the pursuit of self expression. Yes as Dave points out Harold Hahn was one of them but there are many more and as Jimsky touches on, I could name numerous from Eastern Europe and Russia.
When talking about ship models as Art, there are also recognised styles of models that have been born from self expression.To list a few;
Hahn
Frolich
Belgian
Georgian
Russian Palace
I deliberately omit the French Arsenal model, this is everything about historical accuracy and less about the builders interpretation and emotions
I would also like to point out I have seen kit built models in UK museums so museum standard means nothing to me.
My final thoughts
Thousands play Golf in their spare time but have no intention of winning the Open
Most have played Football when they were younger but had no desire to be in the Team that Wins the World Cup
Unless you have a strong desire to win medals or sell models for a living, I think everyone would agree with me the main reason we do this hobby is for enjoyment .If you gain enjoyment and satisfaction pushing the boundaries of your abilities then that is your choice but not everyone's goal. Take it too seriously, it becomes just like the day job
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A seperate post to address the original question.
I do not believe you can attract new people to the hobby solely through a TV program. Our hobby is very niche in the Western Hemisphere and I feel newcomers already have an interest in taking the hobby up from other influences.
Totally different to Eastern Europe and Russia. Russia teaches ship modelling in Colleges
I do not believe you can attract new people to the hobby solely through a TV program. Our hobby is very niche in the Western Hemisphere and I feel newcomers already have an interest in taking the hobby up from other influences.
Totally different to Eastern Europe and Russia. Russia teaches ship modelling in Colleges
I can relate to that, well said. In addition to golf I love fishing, and I have enjoyed the day catching a bunch of 4 or 5 pound snappers as much as some 40 pound dorados. The latter makes for more impressive pictures, but the former taste better
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I am not obsessed with merchant ships, as I have built warships, but I have never liked the colour grey, even in a merchant ship, for some reason. The ships I sailed in (19 of them) had various colours, black, white, yellow, lavender, blue and green. I must admit, I did like the bottle green ones. I did sail briefly in a warship during the Falklands - very interesting, but not really my scene (HMS Ledbury - see below). I obtain my plans mainly from old technical journals - Merchant ships were always brought into the action in times of war, such as the green-hulled RMS Jervis Bay - below. And even my own green-hulled RMS St Helena, shown below centre, refuelling a minehunter - I took the photograph from our helicopter -
Finally, the battleship HMS Dreadnought, that I built some years ago.
I mainly enjoyed the infinite number of sizes, types an colours that I had to choose from.
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from the archives of Harold Hahn is he mocking the establishment that demand historical accuracy and po po artistic expression?
i knew Harold for years and he was bull headed both a target for criticism and he dished it out.
the tiny type at the bottom is a date and sighed Harold
i knew Harold for years and he was bull headed both a target for criticism and he dished it out.
the tiny type at the bottom is a date and sighed Harold
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That is know as "Steampunk" style, and I have become interested in it myself of late!
Ahoy mates,
Just a gentle reminder!!!!!! This thread was started to explore the idea of creating a TV program to spread model shipbuilding to a wider audience. Somewhere along the way, we've drifted quite a bit off course. We’re already seven pages deep, but only a few posts are actually tied to the original topic. While we love good and active conversation, we do need to stay focused to keep things helpful and organized for everyone, at least to respect the originator.
If the chatter keeps straying, we may have to lock the thread, and nobody wants to scuttle a good ship!
Let’s steer her back on course. This will be the last warning before action is taken. Let's keep it shipshape, crew!
Thanks, everyone!
Just a gentle reminder!!!!!! This thread was started to explore the idea of creating a TV program to spread model shipbuilding to a wider audience. Somewhere along the way, we've drifted quite a bit off course. We’re already seven pages deep, but only a few posts are actually tied to the original topic. While we love good and active conversation, we do need to stay focused to keep things helpful and organized for everyone, at least to respect the originator.
If the chatter keeps straying, we may have to lock the thread, and nobody wants to scuttle a good ship!
Let’s steer her back on course. This will be the last warning before action is taken. Let's keep it shipshape, crew!
Thanks, everyone!
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I don't think you will have much success in getting a TV production on model shipbuilding , because those who pay for it would have to be interested, and not many of the general public or TV companies are. The nearest you will get to it is Utube, where there are a number of short films made by modelmakers.
As I've stated previously, I tend to agree. The subject matter is simply too narrow to command sufficient interest to be of interest to broadcast distributors. That said, I do believe a series on the broader subject of "miniature modeling," or what I believe what is known in Britain as "model engineering" would have a sufficiently wide audience to garner sponsorship. Such a series let's call it, "Small World," could air episodes with segments on ship, vehicle, armor, and aircraft modeling, dollhouse miniatures, model railroading, model engineering, and so on, each segment consisting of a visit to the workshop of a miniaturist and an examination of their work. The trick is to "pitch" the concept to a sponsor, perhaps one of the larger craft and hobby retailers such as Hobby Lobby in the U.S., who would then cover production expenses and buy advertising airtime from the broadcaster. The subject matter would be of the sort exhibited by Sherline lathe company's Miniature Engineering Craftsmanship Museum. See: https://craftsmanshipmuseum.com/ I, for one, wouldn't miss a weekly series like that.
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I looked at the Miniature Craftsmenship Museum and there are some fantastic models there, but it does not encourage many with proud statements on something that has taken a lifetime to build. A TV programme might interst newcomers if it demonstrated how to build something quickly with a minimum of cost and tools required, but adverts could still be put in it for basic materials, paints, plans etc. Something like this may tempt some beginners, very few tools required and only a few hours to build -
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Such a series let's call it, "Small World," could air episodes with segments on ship, vehicle, armor, and aircraft modeling, dollhouse miniatures, model railroading, model engineering, and so on, each segment consisting of a visit to the workshop of a miniaturist and an examination of their work.
actually, there was such a series on cable TV that did exactly what you suggest it lasted a few episodes and it was gone. Each subject only lasted a few minutes so it it did not dive deep into each art/craft.
If the chatter keeps straying, we may have to lock the thread, and nobody wants to scuttle a good ship!
Let’s steer her back on course. This will be the last warning before action is taken. Let's keep it shipshape, crew!
it is an interesting topic because it did expand into different subjects that is the very reason it became interesting. We covered the TV part and realized it is not an option.
when did SoS become so strict in its rules as soon as something drifts it is shut down? there are 243 members reading this and no one is complaining about the content. God help us all is anyone offends the staff or breaks a rule and subjects are locked.
Let is flow in whatever direction the members take it. Relax!
actually, there was such a series on cable TV that did exactly what you suggest it lasted a few episodes and it was gone. Each subject only lasted a few minutes so it it did not dive deep into each art/craft.
If the chatter keeps straying, we may have to lock the thread, and nobody wants to scuttle a good ship!
Let’s steer her back on course. This will be the last warning before action is taken. Let's keep it shipshape, crew!
it is an interesting topic because it did expand into different subjects that is the very reason it became interesting. We covered the TV part and realized it is not an option.
when did SoS become so strict in its rules as soon as something drifts it is shut down? there are 243 members reading this and no one is complaining about the content. God help us all is anyone offends the staff or breaks a rule and subjects are locked.
Let is flow in whatever direction the members take it. Relax!
Actually, the original poster did complain about the content and direction...
.
Yes,we have to RESPECT the original posterActually, the original poster did complain about the content and direction...
I also reposted that complain earlier from the original poster and got ignoredActually, the original poster did complain about the content and direction...
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ok i stand corrected
if members complain a topic is drifting too far out of line then yes get it back to the original.
but if 243 members enjoy what is being posted then leave it alone.
we did cover the original and that might be why it drifted not much more could be said.
if members complain a topic is drifting too far out of line then yes get it back to the original.
but if 243 members enjoy what is being posted then leave it alone.
we did cover the original and that might be why it drifted not much more could be said.
Hi Dave,
I completely understand your point and appreciate your passion for open conversation. However, SOS has always aimed to maintain a balance between friendly, natural discussions and staying true to a thread’s original purpose.
When a topic starts to drift too far, it’s not about being overly strict, it’s about keeping the forum useful and respectful for everyone, especially those who come later looking for clear, topic-related information. We absolutely value lively interaction, but if a discussion needs a new direction, it’s easy to start a fresh thread where it can flow freely without confusing the original topic.
If you or anyone else would like to discuss related or different topics, feel free to start a new thread; that way, the conversation can continue without limits!
Trust me, no one is eager to shut down good conversation, we just want to make sure it stays organized and welcoming for all. Thanks for understanding, mate!
Thanks for your understanding,
You're right that sometimes a topic naturally runs its course, and SOS appreciates when members are actively engaged (Amazing!). That said, if there's a lot of energy around a new direction, it’s always best to start a fresh thread for it. That way, we keep things organized and easy to follow, without losing any of the great discussions.
If you feel this conversation deserves its spotlight, we'd be happy to see you launch a new thread, it'll keep the ship sailing smoothly for everyone!
Thanks again,