Has anyone used this suggested mini table saw as I am looking for one with versatility yet not break the bank like the Byrnes Saw?
Alternative suggestions welcomed.
Another Jim Byrnes saw is on EBay.
- Thread starter Gregoryhansel
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Alternative suggestions welcomed.
When did you get that info?
Their web site say's they are not taking orders and still has the obituary page when you first log on .
Their web site say's they are not taking orders and still has the obituary page when you first log on .
available again need to contact by e-mail. slow at updating web
12” 120v - $495
18” 120v - $670
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Good to hear.
Anyone considering a purchase I would suggest you go with the 18" table. I originally bought the 12" and within a few months took it to Jim's shop and he upgraded mine to 18".
Hi,
Do you have the email to contact them at? Also, are they going to manufacture that cool cross-cut sled they had, do you know?
Thanks for this tip! Yes, the website still has the banner about Jim and even the contact form is greyed over and inactive.
Thanks,
Glenn
jdm@cfl.rr.com Their reply came from <mmllc@cfl.rr.com>
I hope it’s not too personal, but can I ask where you got the info/address. Before I send significant money to an email address that isn’t part of the Byrnes Model Machines domain.
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The Byrnes table saw is used by many others besides ship modelers and, no doubt, has commercial applications for purposes such as professional architectural modeling, other miniature wood and metal fabrication processes, luthiers, clock makers, and the like. One can do the same quality of work with hand tools or other power tools, but none that I know of, other than perhaps the Dremel, Proxxon, and MicroLux saws can do the sawing jobs ship modelers use it for to mill scale timber with slotting blades with extremely narrow kerfs. When a lot of strip wood has to be milled out of expensive exotic (and even not so exotic) wood species, a thin kerfed blade can yield twice or more the quantity of useful pieces that a standard kerfed blade can. If you are ripping thin planking stock, the standard kerf blade can produce as much as twice the sawdust as it produces plank. When Harlod Hahn was milling pear and boxwood, or whatever, for his models with a Craftsman thin kerfed veneer blade on an 8" table saw, that wood was a heck of a lot less expensive than it is today!
The Byrnes saw is also by far the most powerful available. Many micro-saws, especially those with 12 VDC motors, can't handle big bites of hardwoods and will stall or overheat if overloaded. The Byrnes saw has a 1/3 horsepower motor (120 VAC or 240 VAC) and will easily cut through 15/16" hardwood. One guy used his to do all the cutting on his oak hardwood floor installation! Don't try that on your Proxxon or Dremel!
Admittedly, the Byrnes saw does not have a tilting arbor and angled rip cuts will have to be made by raising the edge of the workpiece with a shop-made jig or by using the optional tilting table attachment. This is a deal-breaker for some users, but it doesn't seem to be an issue with ship modelers who don't have occasion to do a lot of beveled ripping. Apparently, given the engineering limitations, the non-tilting arbor is essential to the high accuracy tolerances of the Byrnes saw and a tilting arbor induces "slop" into the machine that affects the accuracy of it.
Unlike any of its competitors, the Byrnes saw is virtually a "bespoke" machine, each being generally to one degree or another built "as specified" by the customer. They are made in a small artisanal machine shop, not on an Asian assembly line with questionable quality control. Besides the substantial economy of using thin kerfed 4" metal slotting blades to mill expensive modeling wood, the Byrnes saw does so within tolerances of a half a thousandth of an inch and will do so consistently all day long. It's micrometer fence adjustment makes set-ups to do so a snap as well. Moreover, no other micro-table saw on the market comes close to the quality of construction or mass of the Byrnes saw. (As with any machine tool, mass = accuracy. The Byrnes saw is made of machined aluminum plate and I believe the only plastic parts on it are the see-through blade guard and the vacuum hose spud.) At the retail price of five or six hundred bucks, adding on the micrometer fence setting feathre and machined aluminum cross-cut sled for mass-production of repetitive cuts, etc., it was, before production was suspended by Jim Byrnes' untimely passing, a very reasonably priced bit of kit that one could expect to sell for what they paid for it in the unlikely event they ever wanted to part with one.
The recent eBay sales are likely aberrations which reflect somebody who absolutely needed one for a profit-making purpose, thereby justifying the price they paid, or "some nut" who just had to have one. I expect, and hope, that when Jim's wife and business partner, Donna, recovers from her loss, she, or a successor, will have the shop up and running at full tilt again. Their products were simply too good not to keep producing. Perhaps the most convincing evidence of both the quality and the value of a Byrnes saw is the fact that despite decades in production, no Chinese contract machine tool factory has copied its design!
I suspect he was joking. I'm sure it will cut wood, but it's not the tool designed for the job of getting out strip wood and other high tolerance modeling saw tasks.
I would urge folks not to waste money on any other mini-saw for modeling. Those of us who have any of the Byrnes Model Machines all know this from experience. The closest competitors are the Proxxon and MicroLux saws and they're not even in the same zip code when it comes to materials quality, fit and finish, accuracy, and power. As noted in this thread, when production was interrupted by Jim Byrnes' untimely passing, people were paying two to four times the retail price for used models. The Byrnes saw will quite likely return close to, if not as much, as you paid for it if you ever wish to get rid of it.
Nobody needs a Byrnes saw to build high quality models, but tremendous savings are to be had by scratch-building instead of buying decent kits and milling your own strip wood reduces materials costs to virtually zero. In order to consistently mill wood strips for planking and the like, one does need a Byrnes saw. Nothing else will turn out the finished quality perfectly sized stock as well as the "Jim-saw." Moreover, if you are using expensive exotic wood species, the narrow-kerf slotting saws on the Byrnes saw reduce the amount of expensive wood that's turned into sawdust with each cut.
The Byrnes saw doesn't cost all that much more than the competition, either. (Although, unfortunately, the cost of shipping and customs duties can double the final acquisition cost which does make it too expensive for most purchasers who have to have it shipped overseas. ... Find a friend who'll smuggle one across the border, I guess.) Everything costs more these days. You will probably end up paying close to $700 plus freight for the Byrnes standard sized table saw with the commonly desired options: the raised fence, extended miter bar arm, micrometer fence stop, sliding crosscut table, and assorted goodies like the taper gauge, a couple of extra blades, and the "spare screws" parts package. (Talk to them about their recommendations when you order. The saws are "bespoke," custom made to your specific order, so you'll want to make sure you only buy what you need. Remember that there's shipping savings on buying all the accessories at the same time as the saw and having everything shipped together.)
$700 is real money, of course, but if you are going to do any scratch building, your savings from milling your own stock for two or three models (or just one "big" plank on frame pear and ebony Navy Board style masterpiece) will more than equal the cost of the saw and accessories. Drink a cheaper brand of booze for a while, work some overtime hours, sell some junk you don't need, bring a sandwich to work instead of eating out, or sell some of the kits you've got sitting on the shelf and will never build. There's always a way to hustle a few bucks here or there and before you know it, you'll have enough to get a saw that will let you run with the big dogs. Follow the old rule: "Don't buy a tool until you need it, and (unless it's a tool you aren't going to use much,) buy the best tool you can possibly afford. The Byrnes saw won't disappoint!
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Dear Bob Cleek and fellow modelers,
This has been a very interesting discussion concerning table top saws for serious ship modelers as I've learned a lot from it.
Could someone please post Jim Byrnes website link and current direct contact information?
I'd like to see what they have to offer and make a decision from there.
Thanks!
This has been a very interesting discussion concerning table top saws for serious ship modelers as I've learned a lot from it.
Could someone please post Jim Byrnes website link and current direct contact information?
I'd like to see what they have to offer and make a decision from there.
Thanks!
Easy, Google Byrnes Tools.
Byrnes Model Machines Home Page
Byrnes Model Machines produces precision-engineered miniature Table Saws and Thickness Sanders for Ship Modelers, Dollhouse Makers and Model Railroad Builders; every machine has an accuracy measured in thousandths of an inch.
www.byrnesmodelmachines.com