Assistance please from all of you experienced sailors/modellers.

R

RickNoyes

Joined
Mar 4, 2021
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Location
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Assistance please from all of you experienced sailors/modellers.

I’m looking for a critique of the rigging specifically and the boat itself in general. I.e. Where did I get it right and more importantly where have I stuffed it up. Also perhaps any books that could be recommended as I plan on doing more ships boats in future.

I am finding it very difficult to get information on how period ships boats would have been rigged. For example, I cannot find details of how and where to place cleats, fasteners, type and location for anchoring mast stays and fixed rigging, block(s) styles (if any would have been used on such a boat), Hence a lot of what I am doing is pure guess work for this model which is based on Harold and Underhill plans for a 26ft yawl circa.1800s. with lug sails.

The sails are based on “The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel.”

I used 3 different woods for the boat (something I wouldn’t normally do) cherry, walnut and maple. Reason being I needed to get rid of some of some offcuts.

I’m also not a big fan of painting my models and like the look of oiled timbre.

Thank you all for your assistance (in advance).

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It is apparent that you have either a lot of experience or very good artist skills. Very nice and beautifully done !!!
If you are asking for any critiques, it would be the blocks (pulleys) are just a tad too large. Maybe half the size would have been better. However, I would love to put this model in my Gallery. You can find the Gallery just by clicking anywhere on the moving slide show at top of forum.

Donnie
 
Beautiful work and I agree with you about the natural timber--using different types of wood is a great look. I'd agree with Donnie about the scale of the pulleys but that doesn't detract from a really good piece of work.
 
Wonderful model!!! The only critique I have is the scale of your rigging blocks. They seem just a bit large. Kit or scratch build you have a wonderful model. KUDOS!
 
wernerweiss said:
Hello Rick,
a wonderful model and an eyecatcher!
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Thanks for the kind words Werner. I've become obsessed with ships boats, I think it’s because you can see all of the item, i.e. the complete package inside and out.
Philski said:
Is this a kit or scratch built? And what scale?
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Hi Phil. It is entirely scratch built including hardware, ropes/stays etc. The only thing which isn’t handmade is the cloth I bought to make the sails. The model length from bow to transom is 500mm long x 120mm wide or 19 ½ “ x 4 ¾ ”. Regarding scale I couldn’t tell you really, I use a method called ratio and proportion when making my models. It’s a technique I learned as an apprentice millwright in Canada 50+ years ago. The scale on the plans was ¼ “ = 1 ft.
 
Donnie said:
It is apparent that you have either a lot of experience or very good artist skills. Very nice and beautifully done !!!
If you are asking for any critiques, it would be the blocks (pulleys) are just a tad too large. Maybe half the size would have been better. However, I would love to put this model in my Gallery. You can find the Gallery just by clicking anywhere on the moving slide show at top of forum.

Donnie
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Thanks for the kind words Donnie. Right…The consensus from others who agree with you that the bocks are too large. Also I found from another old post that the means of attaching the blocks to the gunwale is probably not correct. Another period drawing I stumbled across shows them attached with rope like slings around the shelf which the thwarts sit on. Makes sense as this would be much stronger than the gunwale. I’ll correct all of the faults on this (and a few other boats) I’ve done before I post them in your gallery. Also I’m awaiting others who could help shed some light on where I’ve mucked up.
 
Thomas said:
Beautiful work and I agree with you about the natural timber--using different types of wood is a great look. I'd agree with Donnie about the scale of the pulleys but that doesn't detract from a really good piece of work.
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Thanks for the praise Thomas. Generally I wouldn’t use more than 2 distinct coloured woods as it tends to look a bit busy if you go overboard. I’m a bit OCD so I’ afraid I’ll have to address the pulley/block size.
 
Hoss6262 said:
Wonderful model!!! The only critique I have is the scale of your rigging blocks. They seem just a bit large. Kit or scratch build you have a wonderful model. KUDOS!
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Thanks for the praise Ken. It is entirely scratch built including hardware, ropes/stays etc. The only thing which isn’t handmade is the cloth I bought to make the sails. I’ve taken on board the block size issue and plan on correcting this.
 
Well, I can certainly say that I have some gross errors with two of my ship models in the rigging part. So, its all ok. We are all learning and continually developing our skills - don;t think that you have to improve anything for it to be in the Gallery (BTW- that is something that I have to upload myself).
But, if you wish to make corrections, and get finished (again), then let me know.
Ship modeling (if you haven't heard by now) is and can be very difficult. The nautical terms are vast - especialy when you get into Plank on Frame models (admiralty style).
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Splendid workmanship! It looks very real. I wish I could help you with cleat and belaying points for boats, but that's outside my experience.
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Thank you very much Kurt. The British we very good at detailing most things. I was blown away with the detail in “The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel.” including the price of each and every item. Unfortunately and frustratingly in his book they don't go into any detail about how all of the hardware is attached. It’s like its assumed that they knew how it should work and they probably did.
 
RickNoyes said:
Thank you very much Kurt. The British we very good at detailing most things. I was blown away with the detail in “The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel.” including the price of each and every item. Unfortunately and frustratingly in his book they don't go into any detail about how all of the hardware is attached. It’s like its assumed that they knew how it should work and they probably did.
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Keep digging for sources. Something will turn up. I get so tired of making guesses, but such is the nature of this hobby.
 
RickNoyes said:
Thank you very much Kurt. The British we very good at detailing most things. I was blown away with the detail in “The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel.” including the price of each and every item. Unfortunately and frustratingly in his book they don't go into any detail about how all of the hardware is attached. It’s like its assumed that they knew how it should work and they probably did.
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Hi Rick, you see with this you will find a lot of news, THE BOATS of MEN of WAR. Regards Frank
 
As the others have written, lovely work. I am especially impressed by the detailing on the sails.
My comment concerns the shrouds/running backstays. I think that these would probably be set up with a single block and becket attached to the hull and a double block turned directly into the end of the shroud (the most common way of setting up running backstays on larger vessels), rather than having a separate strop on the block. I think that attachment to the railing could be fine. Since this is a fixed point, an alternative might be a vertical eyebolt through the wale on the outside, to get the widest possible spread. The lower block would need some sort of quick release, such as a moused hook, so that the rig could be taken down. In small boats like this, the tradition was to be able to disconnect everything, bundle the whole rig up to the mast and take it down as a unit.

Fred
 
Thank you very much Fred. My wife taught me everything I know regarding sewing I did the work but she should get the credit. It took me a while to work out what a becket was. (I have zero experience regarding how to rig sails) and rely solely on the internet and persons such as yourself. I had to turn to the period ship rigging bible to work it out. In the book “The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel.” they have one single picture of the lower block you describe. It all made sense what you proposed (once I drew a picture of it) as the amount of tackle required and the simplicity of this system would be ideal. So…as they say back to the drawing board. Remake smaller (simpler) blocks to your specs and redo my shrouds. I think I'll stick with the strop on the rail though as the idea comes from the very detailed book “The ship’s longboat 1680-1780” and I think it sort of fit/looks like something simple they may have done in the 1800’s. Thanks again for taking the time to assist, greatly appreciated.
 
Donnie said:
It is apparent that you have either a lot of experience or very good artist skills. Very nice and beautifully done !!!
If you are asking for any critiques, it would be the blocks (pulleys) are just a tad too large. Maybe half the size would have been better. However, I would love to put this model in my Gallery. You can find the Gallery just by clicking anywhere on the moving slide show at top of forum.

Donnie
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Hi Donnie. Did a bit of research on blocks from “The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel.” . Made a spreadsheet to see how far off I was with the current block to see if I could modify what I had. Turns out I was about 3mm too large. Based on the book the block for my 1.23mm dia.. rope should be. 10.8m Long x 8.2 wide x 5.4 thick. I’ll have to make new ones but interesting to see that they were larger than I expected.

From the book, THE proportions for single, double, treble, fourfold, and other blocks, are as follow; viz. the length is 8 times the breadth of the sheave-hole, which is one-sixteenth of an inch more than the thickness of the sheave; the thickness of the sheave is one-tenth more than the diameter of the rope it is intended for, and the diameter of the sheave is five times the thickness. The breadth of the block to be six times the thickness of the sheave, and the thickness to be one half the length, or nearly so.

blocks, having more than one sheave, encrease their thickness more than the above proportion, by the additional number of sheave-holes, and middle-parts or partitions; the thickness of each partition to be one-sixth less than the breadth of the sheave-hole.
 
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