Brig rigging, Oneida ?

Tony P

Tony P

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I’m looking for rigging info, plans etc for the rigging of the Oneida. There are no rigging drawings available. I need drawings with sizes of all mast and spar components etc. Seems that the US Brigs were rigged the same but sizes would have been slightly different. I’m lost to even know where to look for this. Thanks
 
i was talking to tony on this but like i said rigging is not my thing i just build hulls.

i remember reading both the British and the americans never built and rigged ships for the lakes, the French were building and sailing the lakes long before both the Brits and americans so they relied on the French. By the war of 1812 everyone pretty much had figured it out.

the Niagara, the Eagle, the Oneida and the Jefferson were all designed and built by the same crews Noah Brown and Henry Eckford. They rigged the ships for the Great Lakes. So using these ships as a reference will get you very close to how the Oneida was rigged. Once they figured it out all the lakes ships were about the same in masting and rigging

i am not very knowledgeable on rigging
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i was talking to tony on this but like i said rigging is not my thing i just build hulls.

i remember reading both the British and the americans never built and rigged ships for the lakes, the French were building and sailing the lakes long before both the Brits and americans so they relied on the French. By the war of 1812 everyone pretty much had figured it out.

the Niagara, the Eagle, the Oneida and the Jefferson were all designed and built by the same crews Noah Brown and Henry Eckford. They rigged the ships for the Great Lakes. So using these ships as a reference will get you very close to how the Oneida was rigged. Once they figured it out all the lakes ships were about the same in masting and rigging

i am not very knowledgeable on rigging
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Thanks Dave. Hopefully someone knows it in detail. If I can find out how it was rigged I can go by another ship plan maybe. Or MS’s Niagara but it still doesn’t give me proper sizes.
 
Tony P said:
Thanks Dave. Hopefully someone knows it in detail. If I can find out how it was rigged I can go by another ship plan maybe. Or MS’s Niagara but it still doesn’t give me proper sizes.
Click to expand...
I have a book at home on American Sailing Ships that may have something useful. I’ll take a look when I get home.
 
MS’s Niagara kit builds a model of the replica. There are no drawings, half models or other known design information for the actual brig that fought off Put-in -Bay in the Autumn of 1813. The replica doesn’t match dimensions that are known for the original vessel. This is understandable as replica’s that carry members of the public must meet modern safety requirements that of course were not in effect when the original vessel was built.

The MS kit builds a model that is “similar to the brig Niagara.”

There is, therefore, no reason to believe that any unique practices used to rig Oneida are known or were incorporated into the Niagara replica. I would suggest that you rig her in accordance with contemporary rigging manuals. Steel’s Masting, Rigging, and Sailmaking would be a good choice.

Roger
 
Understood. Im more concerned with having a scale drawing of masting and rigging. Any book I may get won’t give me the sizes of the parts in my scale 1/48. If these Brigs were all rigged similarly any model plan would at least give me a starting point. How it was rigged may be found in the books but not the info I need to build the parts.
 
Tony,
Lees' Masting and Rigging English Ships of War ratios may be indicative of the dimensions of yards, masts, rigging, blocks, and more that you require. It will be full scale but you can easily convert to whatever scale you need. I have never found any information based on contemporary sources of rigging of American ships, but they are hopefully close to that of the Royal Navy.
Allan
 
MS’s Niagara kit builds a model of the replica. There are no drawings, half models or other known design information for the actual brig that fought off Put-in -Bay in the Autumn of 1813.

not quite true three are no "original " drawings done by the builders but there is a drawing of the hull done from the wreck when it was raised from the Misery Bay.

here is the drawing taken off the wreck

ORIG NIAGARA.jpg

and here is the reconstruction

niagara.jpg

pretty close to one another but not quite the same
 
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Still pondering but I'm thinking I want to start a project Ill get done in my lifetime ! I'm dizzy looking at kits at this point. I have to go with a full kit and all plans and parts provided I think. I don't have the time or desire to do all the research. Other hobbies.
 
i hear you Tony over the years many projects i started just ended because of lack of information or biting off more than i can chew or they were taking sooo long i got bored with it. Worst of all getting deep into the build and finding out i messed up and either had to start over or try to cover up the mistakes. I found myself at the cross roads do i just build a kit or find something else. My thoughts on spending time building a kit is like assembling a jigsaw puzzle which i did a lot of. That is another story. i wasn't learning anything or developing a skill set just killing time.
At one end i find building kits are not a challenge and the other extreme is building from scratch which in many cases is filling in the blanks because of lack of research.
right now i am at the point maybe it is not about "building a ship model" maybe i should dive deep into the art of fine woodworking and the ship is only the subject and not the main focus.

about the rigging of the Oneida the bottom line is no one knows it is all guess work. But it comes down to a big so what you can't be wrong because no one knows what's right
 
Thanks Dave, I di have patience but don't have the tie to devote to such complex matters. I managed to Scratch the Blandford section, happy ! the Le Rochefort was a disaster and I had full plans and the book and the Ancre books. Id love to scratch another but don't see it happening. Ill be happy adding detail to kits if needed. Find a happy medium between a huge project that will never get done and one that lets us use our skills besides putting parts together but still finishing it. Not many good kits in 1/48 of ships I'm interested in that don't cost a small fortune but I have my eye on a few.
 
Dave: Thanks for posting the original drawings taken from the raised vessel. I was unaware that they existed. As a devotee of Chapelle, I was aware of his later reconstruction and his doubts concerning it. I also remember reading an article by someone claiming that the wreckage raised in 1913 was not Niagara but one of the captured British vessels.

Unfortunately when it comes to much of his work, Chapelle is a mystery. Why for example did he not include the cutwater in his reconstruction if it was part of the wreckage? The latest research has uncovered a painting by a British Naval Officer of the vessels anchored at Put-in-Bay after the battle. So, the latest reconstruction by Chrisman of the Eagle now includes a cutwater and head rails.

Chapelle’s reconstruction was done in the 1930’s, approximately 50 years, after the wreckage was incorporated into the original rebuilt Niagara in 1913, so his comments would indicate that key parts of the bow might not have been recovered, and that the first drawing that you posted is of the wreckage plus reconstructed details.

My wife is from Washington DC and when we lived in Southeastern Ohio we visited her parents several times a year. While she went shopping I could take advantage of the various maritime history archives there. Visits to the Smithsonian offices revealed very little about the backstory of Chapelle’s research. Now living in NE Minnesota, advancing age, and difficulty traveling keeps me close to home. I’ll leave it to younger person interested in building a truly accurate model of Perry’s Brigs to dig up some new interesting information in the bowels of the Government’s records.

Roger
 
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