Colors/Colours

[Andyfarmer]

I am interested in members view on the colour e used on 18th century ships, it would seem that there is quite a propensity for toy town Colors. But bright colours were not really a thing until coal tar dyes were invented in the late 19th century. So most paints prior to this involved natural pigments, ie Red ochre, and to have good clolor fasteness high ratios of pigment to brinder woulhd be required = expensive. So one would assume decks etc would be become quite muted, any ideas?

 

[iutar]

Just look at the paintings of marine artists of that era. It will be better than any empty talk.

 

[Quint]

Here's a post that may help.

Marine paint colors in the 19th Century

Does anyone know of a source for information on the range of colours (cheaply) available in marine paints by the end of the 19th Century? I'm not after the colour of antifouling, which was the familiar red shade that long remained in use. Nor am I after the variety of colours that could be used i...

modelshipworld.com

 

[AllanKP69]

I am interested in members view on the colour e used on 18th century ships

What year? 100 years is a long time, and things changed drastically in ship building during the 18th century. In addition to the contemporary paintings that Iutar mentioned there are hundreds of photos of contemporary models on the RMG site and Preble Hall site and elsewhere that you may find helpful. I am pretty sure there was no set rule regarding paint colors, a lot depended on the amount of money in the captain's wallet. The amount of detail on the old models varies. An example for the 18th century would be the hull below the water line. They were coated with white stuff—a mixture of whale oil, rosin, and brimstone (sulfur) for more than half the century then had copper sheathed bottoms. Most contemporary models of ships that had coppered bottoms do not show the copper plating. Years ago I asked about this and RMG responded that it was, as today, near impossible to produce sheathing to scale so occasionally the model builder would just paint the bottom copper color or leave it with no coating at all.
Allan

 

[Roger Pellett]

Also, Nationality and type of ship. Most paint was expensive so humble vessels and lesser warships favored cheap colors, dull red (iron oxide), black (lampblack, and yellow ochre.

Prestige vessels that the Rulers were willing to spend money on would decorate their ships with more expensive colors, notably blue.

Roger

 

[Andyfarmer]

What year? 100 years is a long time, and things changed drastically in ship building during the 18th century. In addition to the contemporary paintings that Iutar mentioned there are hundreds of photos of contemporary models on the RMG site and Preble Hall site and elsewhere that you may find helpful. I am pretty sure there was no set rule regarding paint colors, a lot depended on the amount of money in the captain's wallet. The amount of detail on the old models varies. An example for the 18th century would be the hull below the water line. They werecoated with white stuff—a mixture of whale oil, rosin, and brimstone (sulfur) for more than half the century then had copper sheathed bottoms. Most contemporary models of ships that had coppered bottoms do not show the copper plating. Years ago I asked about this and RMG responded that it was, as today, near impossible to produce sheathing to scale so occasionally the model builder would just paint the bottom copper color or leave it with no coating at all.
Allan

Hi Allan,
It was partly a general question about mid to late 18th century ships, but I have a VM Indefatigable kit (1794) which I am about to start and do not like the Colors as shown in the manual etc., particularly the bright red of the inner bulwarks, gun carriages and other deck furniture and would like it to look less toy like. I have used stains in the past with pleasing results, which also preserves the appearance of wood more. But was looking for inspiration as I like to pre plan my builds.

 

[Signet]

I did quite a bit of research for use on my Granado. The basic colors are not very much of a problem. For white, I used a very light gray and like the appearance. For black, I intend to use a very dark gray. Pure black starts to look toy-like to me. To me, the main concern is the color red used on these vessels. I've always felt it should be something close to barn red, red ochre or red oxide, red ochre being one of the earliest red colors. Wikipedia describes a color called English Red, used from around 1700, but don't specify if it was for naval use. I played around with dozens of red colors, bought about 10 of what I thought was best, mixed others to match samples I'd found online, etc. The most accurate colors, to me, ended up not bright enough when compared to a medium red-brown wood or stain. Red Ochre color is sold by some companies, although the hue varies. I ended up using Pro Acryl Red Oxide, a slightly later color but, to me, a good contrast to use - not too bright, not too dull. Online color shown, color on my model (camera color can vary):


The color that confuses me is the quite bright red color purported to be on the HMS Victory. On the Wiki English Red page, it's quite close to Venetian Red. I personally think this is too bright, at least for me common bomb vessel. Too fancy, too striking. I want to see the red, but I want it to look like it's part of the model, that it belongs, and fits in with the other colors. For me, that's Red Oxide.

Likewise, if you have a yellow color, it's should almost certainly be Yellow Ochre, also made by some companies.

In the end, it should be what's pleasing to you and fits in with your model. Even the Victory colors were apparently far off from accurate for many years, and many still disagree with the latest recommendations. Suit yourself. Just remember, it's a scale model and not a toy.

 

[Signet]

Here is a photo of the model of the 1742 Granado in the National Maritime museum, and basically what I'm going for on my Granado. A lot of red, yet due to the hue, it all seems to fit together and seems appropriate:

 

[Roger Pellett]

My career involved shop fabrication of heavy steel piping that would be insulated once it was erected in the field. Specifications commonly required painting with Red Oxide Primer as a temporary protective coating. Why red oxide? It’s cheap. The color also varied by manufacturer from Signet’s sample posted above to a much brighter red. This is in modern times with pre mixed paint and synthetic resins.

Imagine how the color “red oxide” must have varied 200 or so years ago without paint chip color standards and using natural pigments. Red Oxide is iron ore, and that can vary widely in color and other properties depending on its mineral deposit.

So, trying to figure out the “real red” used to paint these sailing warships is probably impossible. I would, however, avoid a garish look with bright red.

Roger