I’ve been watching several Step by Step videos by OcCre. The builders use contact cement on second hull planking and deck planking. The standard technique is to apply to both surfaces, wait about 15 minutes, and then press to place. So far so good. My question is that in the application of the ‘larger’ piece such as the hull or false deck, more area is covered with cement than can be immediately be used by the covering materials i.e. hull strips or deck planks. If the task in question is not entirely completed at one setting, does the cement on this ‘extra’ area need to be removed from the base before starting again? Can you come back the next day and begin again by just applying cement to the new plank piece, do you need to apply a thin coat to the previously dried base first? If you do have to completely remove and start over as you would with white glue for instance, what’s the best method? And is ‘contact’ cement the same as ‘rubber’ cement? I like the immediacy of contact cement over white glue for these areas and it seems to be much more forgiving than cyanoacrylates, but I don’t know how careful I have to be and what the pitfalls might be.
Is not a contact cement out of use for a few decades? I did not hear it is being used in contemporary wood ship model building. Correct me if I am wrong.
A brief discussion re: contact cement can be found here starting at Post #64
The discussion won't directly address your specific question; however, it does shed a bit of light on the topic. If you already have the contact cement, perhaps an experiment is in order by taking some scrap pieces and let the cement dry over night and see if it bonds the next day, or so.
...henry
Basic training
Hi, depending on the humidity in your area. Many types of wood need once a year an Oil treatment, as the wood can dry out. They are in different colours. I just don't have the experience to know what finish to use. I want a burnished matte on the Bluenose but don't know my options.
shipsofscale.com
The discussion won't directly address your specific question; however, it does shed a bit of light on the topic. If you already have the contact cement, perhaps an experiment is in order by taking some scrap pieces and let the cement dry over night and see if it bonds the next day, or so.
...henry
YT, all I can attest to is what I’ve recently seen. The OcCre demonstration builder(s) seem to use it a lot on second hull and deck planking where the strips are relatively thin. Ohla Batcharov (a well regarded international modeler) uses it on occasion where the wood in question is extremely thin and flexible. I’ve determined not to dismiss it out of hand.
Thanks for the reply. I do intend to test a bit but I was hoping to also learn from other’s experiences. But to your point, there’s no experience like your own experience.
First, rubber cement and contact cement are NOT the same. To me, the major drawback is that when you use contact cement, as soon as the glue of the two pieces touches, you will not be able to make any "adjustments" to the placement of the part. When they stick, they are together and you can not move it.
I don't know the answer to your question about the glue after a day. I know that even after a few hours, the 2 pieces will still stick fast. Definitely experiment with this one.
Hope that helps!
Jeff
I don't know the answer to your question about the glue after a day. I know that even after a few hours, the 2 pieces will still stick fast. Definitely experiment with this one.
Hope that helps!
Jeff
After seeing OcCre's videos I decided to try it myself on some test pieces, and it was a revelation;
I now only use contact cement, with great success, for second planking.
The 'trick' is to not wait until both sides are completely dry, but use it just before, when it is still a bit tacky.
The pieces attach immediately, strong enough to hold even along quite strong bends,
but they can still be adjusted or taken apart.
By far the easiest way to plank thin strips I ever used (like white glue, CA, a combination of both).
Try it;-)
I now only use contact cement, with great success, for second planking.
The 'trick' is to not wait until both sides are completely dry, but use it just before, when it is still a bit tacky.
The pieces attach immediately, strong enough to hold even along quite strong bends,
but they can still be adjusted or taken apart.
By far the easiest way to plank thin strips I ever used (like white glue, CA, a combination of both).
Try it;-)
Thanks Corsair, very helpful. I’ve got some experimenting to do.First, rubber cement and contact cement are NOT the same. To me, the major drawback is that when you use contact cement, as soon as the glue of the two pieces touches, you will not be able to make any "adjustments" to the placement of the part. When they stick, they are together and you can not move it.
I don't know the answer to your question about the glue after a day. I know that even after a few hours, the 2 pieces will still stick fast. Definitely experiment with this one.
Hope that helps!
Jeff
Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.
Here's a video of the 2nd hull planking of the Polaris (by Occre). The background sound track is a bit annoying but the take-away I got was that he used a small paint brush to apply just enough cement for one or two planks at a time rather than doing a larger surface area. Also, by using the above suggestion made by John Hendrix, you'll have a little wiggle room to maneuver the plank before it sets up hard. The reason I'm interested in this topic is that I'm getting ready to close up my first planking (Polaris) and am trying to get a grasp on the 2nd planking techniques.
Zzyzz01, thanks for the link. It makes a bit more sense now. I also realized (duh!) that it’s easy to succumb to the idea that the OcCre videos are separate events with time in between when in reality a fair number of 3 minute ‘steps’ are most assuredly all part of the same build session so whatever area the demonstrator is working on will be completed before the cement dries completely. I appreciate everyone’s help in working through this.
I do not use contact cement at any point in my ship models…I find it too unforgiving, excessive in its glue strength, and disconcerting when the part tacks in place immediately. I use either PVA (white hobby glue) glue or CA gel glue to great success. Yes, one needs to clamp or hold a part in place until the glue tacks the part in place. The PVA glue I use is a quick dry high tack white hobby glue (not a “wood” glue). Parts are held quickly by the high tack nature of the glue and the glue dries quickly enough for minimum hold time. I also use CA gel on my planking. A drop of the gel and a hold for ten seconds and the plank is secured. So, an alternate opinion on contact cement…
I use it like it shows on the occre instructions and have good results. That being said it takes a good amount of practice to become good at it. Drying time varys by temp and humidity. You are aiming for slightly tacky but not sticky. If you first put down very lightly ( next to no pressure) you can carefully lift and reposition the piece If needed. Again takes practice. Try on some odd pieces before on your project. Start with a deck first (straight/ no curves) before trying second planking. If you leave and come back later just recoat again and let it become tacky again. If it's too thick to recoat roll your finger over it and it will lift off in little balls, it's hard to describe. I hope I have helped
From what I can gather I think I’m going to try a middle course. I’m going to experiment so that I can use it when it makes the most sense but steer away when other adhesives lend themselves to easier applications. Both comments helped tremendously. I’m always awed by your collective experience and willingness to share. Thanks, I hope to repay to others down the line.
A bit like what you find in your nose! YUK! Sorry about that guys.
I use it for the deck planking. Because it is not water based, it doesn't warp the deck surface like PVA glue does.
This is interesting. There seems to be a big difference in glues available in Europe and in the US. What I mostly use for my paper works is a transparant glue on acetone base, mostly sold in tubes of plastic flacons. You can simply apply some glue to one of the surfaces you want to stick and put the two together in a matter of seconds, although it helps if you wait a few more. If the fit is not not completely right you can easily move the paper to its right location. A couple of seconds, maybe half a minute later it has dried and the two parts are stuck. The only downside of the glue is that it sometimes forms long threads like a spider does, which can be a nuisance. Collall is a wel-known brand here but I never spotted that name in reports from American members. For my paper models I don't use white glue because it is water based and ruins the flatness of the paper. I would be interested to know if something comparable to Collall is available in the US and under what name it is sold. For me that is an important item, because in my next book the tutorial for some ships mostly speaks of that sort of transparent glue. A firm's name of brand would be most helpful for me and for my American readers. Please help me out.
Ab
Ab
Although I do not have any experience with this product / brand, it appears to be similar to the one you mentioned (i.e. solvent based, transparent, quick dry). It's called Beacon 3-in-1. It's made in the USA and readily available through craft & hobby shops such as Michaels and Hobby Lobby, as well as through Amazon.
Hope this helps...
...henry
Hope this helps...
...henry
That is fantastic, thank you very much Henry. My problem was probably caused because of the fact that most builders work in wood and therefore use wood glues. (In my wood building time by the way my preference was 2-components epoxy glue, but that's another subject.) If you want to work in paper, water-based glues are a no-go.
Happy with your answer.
Happy with your answer.
Hej Ab, care to share why you preferred 2c epoxy? Seems like an unusual choice?
And a bit of a hassle, mixing, relatively short working time..(ben gewoon nieuwsgierig).
And a bit of a hassle, mixing, relatively short working time..(ben gewoon nieuwsgierig).